Is Satan the author of the Global Warming lie?

[_bcspace]

the consequences of global warming may be something we'll have to live with, like another generation of American soldiers in Iraq.

All that needs to happen there is for the left to stop lying about and politicizing the war and it will end tomorrow in victory.

I haven't seen Al Gore's movie although I probably should.

Seems to be a general scientific consensus that his movie is not scientifically sound.

Theres a certain amount of evidence that is incontrivertible.

The evidence says there's a slight warming trend. That's about it.

Furthermore, some of the rationalizations being offered on MAD are breathtaking.

There is a certain level of what I call "Mormon Mythology" that exists (the same type of mythology that exists in all philosophies and belief systems), but I haven't done any reading in that particular thread.

I won't say you're one of them, BC, if you don't call me a bandwagon scientist.

LOL! Sure.

[_The Dude]

...but I haven't done any reading in that particular thread.

You should! It's pretty classic so far.

Seems to be a general scientific consensus that his movie is not scientifically sound.

Really? Where can I read about that consensus?

The evidence says there's a slight warming trend. That's about it.

And where can I read this summary of the evidence? That sounds kind of authoritative, but I don't know if you just got it from the radio. Help me out here.

[Guest]

For starters.....

The Petition Project http://www.sitewave.net/PPROJECT/pproject.htm

See also the Heidelburg Appeal

Listed below are 19,200 of the initial signers During the past 2 years, more than 17,100 basic and applied American scientists, two-thirds with advanced degrees, have signed the Global Warming Petition.

Signers of this petition so far include 2,660 physicists, geophysicists, climatologists, meteorologists, oceanographers, and environmental scientists (select this link for a listing of these individuals) who are especially well qualified to evaluate the effects of carbon dioxide on the Earth's atmosphere and climate.

Signers of this petition also include 5,017 scientists whose fields of specialization in chemistry, biochemistry, biology, and other life sciences (select this link for a listing of these individuals) make them especially well qualified to evaluate the effects of carbon dioxide upon the Earth's plant and animal life.

Nearly all of the initial 17,100 scientist signers have technical training suitable for the evaluation of the relevant research data, and many are trained in related fields. In addition to these 17,100, approximately 2,400 individuals have signed the petition who are trained in fields other than science or whose field of specialization was not specified on their returned petition.

Of the 19,700 signatures that the project has received in total so far, 17,800 have been independently verified and the other 1,900 have not yet been independently verified. Of those signers holding the degree of PhD, 95% have now been independently verified. One name that was sent in by enviro pranksters, Geri Halliwell, PhD, has been eliminated. Several names, such as Perry Mason and Robert Byrd are still on the list even though enviro press reports have ridculed their identity with the names of famous personalities. They are actual signers. Perry Mason, for example, is a PhD Chemist.

The same site gives an introductory review of the science.

As for Gore, the above consenus against his conclusions and the simple fact that his own conclusions are not peer-reviewed ought to be enough. However, here is more science and references directed at Gore specifically......

Gore Gored http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20061121_gore.pdf

[_Mary]

BC, you want to watch it when you say that 'all lies are of the devil'.
The leadership of the church aren't averse to telling a few lies themselves when the occassion permits
so I hope you are not claiming that the leaders are acting under the influence of the devil when they do
lie!!!!

I havn't read that thread, and appreciate that there are two camps. I think that what we can say for certain is
that western civilisations are wasteful and careless with energy consumption, and that that ought to be addressed.

Fossil fuels won't last forever, so someone better be developing more efficient use of transport, rail networks etc
and re-cycling facilities. The first electric car was developed back in the 20's, I'm sure that the technology is out
there, but as always there will be winners and losers, and there's an awful lot of oil barons who want to keep their
hands on the money.

Avatar's thinking is basically sound given the paradigm that he exists and operates from. As a Mormon, if it
were important, you would expect the prophet to speak up and warn or comfort. If he's not (speaking up) then either
God isn't worried enought to tell him anything; he (the prophet) doesn't want to ask God because a few of the churches
businesses might be in trouble; he (the prophet) doesn't want to ask God because he (the prophet) doesn't think it is important;
he (the prophet) doesn't ask because he's too old, tired and busied with the corporation; he (the prophet) has already made his
mind up (without asking God) that global warming is a sign of the times, since the earth will 'be burned by fire' before the great and
dreadful day of the lord, and therefore global warming, whether we are responsible for it or not, is part of God's plan.

[_bcspace]

I think that what we can say for certain is that western civilisations are wasteful and careless with energy consumption, and that that ought to be addressed.

Sure. I like conservation.

Fossil fuels won't last forever, so someone better be developing more efficient use of transport, rail networks etc
and re-cycling facilities. The first electric car was developed back in the 20's, I'm sure that the technology is out
there, but as always there will be winners and losers, and there's an awful lot of oil barons who want to keep their
hands on the money.

Nuclear energy (fusion in particular) is the only viable solution. Even draconian conservation efforts combined with near 100% utilization of other alternative sources (all of which I am not opposed to) will not be near enough.

As a Mormon, if it were important, you would expect the prophet to speak up and warn or comfort.

As a Mormon, I wouldn't (D&C 58:26-28).

If he's not (speaking up) then either God isn't worried enought to tell him anything; he (the prophet) doesn't want to ask God because a few of the churches businesses might be in trouble; he (the prophet) doesn't want to ask God because he (the prophet) doesn't think it is important; he (the prophet) doesn't ask because he's too old, tired and busied with the corporation; he (the prophet) has already made his mind up (without asking God) that global warming is a sign of the times, since the earth will 'be burned by fire' before the great and dreadful day of the lord, and therefore global warming, whether we are responsible for it or not, is part of God's plan.

Unreasonable paranoia.

[_Fortigurn]

I'd hate to accuse you of lazy research BC, so before I do would you mind documenting your claims?

But I shall accuse you of lazy research. Read my post more carefully. Did I make any claims (other than having listened to a radio program) at all?

Yes, you made a number of claims. You provided a list of statements regarding climate and weather (not to mention the claim that 'the environmentalist notions on global warming' were 'debunked' by a radio show to which you listened), none of which you substantiated with any references. Please do so.

By the way, what 'lazy research' did you detect in my post?

[_bcspace]

But I shall accuse you of lazy research. Read my post more carefully. Did I make any claims (other than having listened to a radio program) at all?

Yes, you made a number of claims. You provided a list of statements regarding climate and weather (not to mention the claim that 'the environmentalist notions on global warming' were 'debunked' by a radio show to which you listened),

And since his claims are testable, you may see for yourself if his claims are correct. Afterall, I didn't make tham.

none of which you substantiated with any references. Please do so.

The Dude seems to understand anecdote. Why don't you?

By the way, what 'lazy research' did you detect in my post?

That you said I made claims and I hadn't.

[_Fortigurn]

And since his claims are testable, you may see for yourself if his claims are correct. Afterall, I didn't make tham.

Er, you didn't quote his claims. You offered your interpretation of what he said, making various claims along the way. I've asked you to provide references for what you wrote and claimed. By the way, did you test his claims before making the claim that he had 'debunked' the 'environmentalist notions on global warming'?

The Dude seems to understand anecdote. Why don't you?

I do. But we're not discussing anecdote here, we're discussing your claims.

By the way, what 'lazy research' did you detect in my post?

That you said I made claims and I hadn't.

How does that constitute 'lazy research', especially given that you made certain claims?

[_Roger Morrison]

Anti-Mormon, yep, that's what the introductory paste was/is. I think some trol wants to make Mormons look really stupid...

How better to do that than throw out bait about being led in all things by a Prophet. Like, since ear rings are important, and males are warned about females gaining more education and the subversion of male dominance. Then if THE Prophet doesn't think Global Warming is worth his comment then "All is well. All is well!"

Gotta be an Anti-Mo... "Warming regards," Roger :-)

[_Analytics]

According to the EPA,

Scientists are certain that human activities are changing the composition of the atmosphere, and that increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases will change the planet's climate. But they are not sure by how much it will change, at what rate it will change, or what the exact effects will be.

http://epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.html

Just to clarify what we're talking about, bcspace, would you consider the above claim "the environmentalist notions on global warming" that have been debunked, or is this closer to the "general scientific consensus" that debunked the environmentalist position?