Why So Few Faithful?

[_why me]

LDS posters do not post here because it lacks the right flavor. Many LDS posters are in the blogs and enjoy consorting with their own kind or with people who will respect the LDS church even if they may disagree with it. This is the flavor LDS posters enjoy.

And yes, LDS posters would find the cuss words just a little offensive here and may vanish without a post. The fact is the board is titled: Mormon Discussions and as such, it focuses on Mormon discussions. But such discussions need to be respectful of LDS poster morals and lifestyles. And at times, the board isn't such a board.

Juliann and Dan would never post here because they would both be trashed without a second thought by some of the posters here. And you all know it.

[_maklelan]

Who are we to say that Harmony cannot answer in the affirmative to these questions?

Here is a list of the current temple recommend questions asked:

Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

I have no doubt she is relatively secure on these questions.

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

She cannot possibly answer this question in the affirmative. Exampels:

I think you confuse the gospel of Jesus Christ with some of the teachings of the leaders of the LDS church. They are not the same. When I see a divergence between the two, I choose to follow the gospel, not the leaders of the church. I am commanded by God to follow only my own personal inspiration, to have my personal relationship with God, to lean not on the arm of flesh but on what He tells me.

Hardly sustaining them as prophets, seers or revelators. More like: "I am closer to God than they are, so I'll follow God when they fail to." Some more:

I am a sinner, as is every other person who ever lived. However, my sins notwithstanding (and some of them are pretty bad), I carry what my culture refers to as the Holy Ghost with me always. I live by and with its influence and support. I am comforted by its presence and the peace it brings me. Other people, both members and nonmembers, comment on my aura regularly. Yet according to your basic premise, I should not be able to do this, Gaz. I should be bereft and left alone because I am wilfully disobedient to many of the demands from our leaders in Salt Lake, and I pay little attention to the demands from my stake and ward leaders (which is likely why my local leaders rarely make demands). I choose what I obey, based on the promptings of HG; I am who I am, because I follow the promptings of the HG, not the demands of the GAs. I find the GAs to often be at odds with the HG, and I choose to follow the HG, not the GAs.

According to you, a member such as I, disobedient and unrepentent, should be alone, yet I am not. How do you explain this?

Certainly no shred of sustaining there. No temple recommend for harmony is she were ever honest, but moving on:

Do you live the law of chastity?
Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

I think she's probably fine here.

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

She definitely agrees with teachings (probably not practices, except for ignoring your priesthood leaders) that oppose the church's.

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Yes and no, from what she posts.

Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

Definitely not. She lied to my face and didn't admit it when she exposed herself:

Have you attempted to register there under a false name after being kicked off?

Nope. I'm one of the banished; I can't even read, let alone register under a different name.

I hope you don't mind that I point this out:

When I asked how long I'd be on the Q, the PM from the mods was that I would never get off the Q. When I asked why, I was told it was because I was harmony. None of my posts ever made it out of the Q. So I re-registered, this time as Dill Pickles. I existed for several months as the Pickle, contributing my perspective in a very lowkey manner. I was banned as the Pickle without any warning, without any messages or emails, simply because the powers that be figured out that the Pickle was harmony and I'd committed the unpardonable sin of jumping the Q they'd placed Blink on. I was Q'd because I was harmony and banned for the same reason.

You weren't banned for simply being yourself, you were banned because you lied and broke a rule. You can't keep reregistering at places you've been kicked off of and then get mad at them when they find a way to keep you off.

She refused to admit she lied for quite some time.

Are you a full-tithe payer?
Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
If you have previously received your temple endowment:Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

I don't know about the rest.

Also....when did Harmony ever say that she was using an alias to hide her identity from her bishop? I think that Plutarch made some accusations to her in that vein, but she refuted it. I remember Harmony stating on another thread that her Church leaders were very aware of her problems with Church history, etc.

I believe that the reason that Harmony is posting anonymously here is for the same reason I am, and many women post anonymously on the Internet. It's for safety concerns. When I first began posting online, I was naiive, and would post under my real name. We ended up with an unfortunate situation with a stalker. Since that time, I have always used an alias.

Jersey Girl and many other women here have adapted aliases for the same reason.

I've got to get to Hebrew, but I'll pull that stuff up sometime later. Thanks for posting the questions.

[_maklelan]

LDS posters do not post here because it lacks the right flavor. Many LDS posters are in the blogs and enjoy consorting with their own kind or with people who will respect the LDS church even if they may disagree with it. This is the flavor LDS posters enjoy.

And yes, LDS posters would find the cuss words just a little offensive here and may vanish without a post. The fact is the board is titled: Mormon Discussions and as such, it focuses on Mormon discussions. But such discussions need to be respectful of LDS poster morals and lifestyles. And at times, the board isn't such a board.

Juliann and Dan would never post here because they would both be trashed without a second thought by some of the posters here. And you all know it.

I think this gets closer to the situation. I've been surrounded by all kinds of people that don't respect a thing for my entire life, so I don't really get offended by stuff, but others prefer not to be exposed to some of the stuff we see here. I think you many here create an atmosphere that repels people who don't like mean and disrespectful people. There's no filter for people like Vegas to come into any decent conversation and start accusing people of having sex with their mission president. And then those people who offend everyone say the reason LDS stay away is because they talk about difficult subjects. That's a joke.

[_Jersey Girl]

Liz

I believe that the reason that Harmony is posting anonymously here is for the same reason I am, and many women post anonymously on the Internet. It's for safety concerns. When I first began posting online, I was naiive, and would post under my real name. We ended up with an unfortunate situation with a stalker. Since that time, I have always used an alias.

Jersey Girl and many other women here have adapted aliases for the same reason.

I see that I was mentioned in the above. I have used the screen name "Jersey Girl" for over 6 years on another board but it's new to people on the LDS boards. If anyone needs to know why I changed it back to Jersey Girl for this board, just ask.

There are people on these boards who know my real name, my location and how to contact me. Unfortunately, there was another poster perhaps going 3 or 4 years back who also knew that information. They became angry with me on a message board and started posting my real full name, information about my work place and names of family members. Admin had to dream up some stuff to keep that from happening again.

I am very cautious about sharing personal information on boards like this, only a very small handfull of trusted people know my last name, email, etc. A slightly larger handfull of people know my first name.

Tell me why it matters to anyone what my identity is? This and other boards, are topical discussion boards. When I choose to become the topic, I'll let you know.

Jersey Girl

[_richardMdBorn]

LDS posters do not post here because it lacks the right flavor. Many LDS posters are in the blogs and enjoy consorting with their own kind or with people who will respect the LDS church even if they may disagree with it. This is the flavor LDS posters enjoy.

And yes, LDS posters would find the cuss words just a little offensive here and may vanish without a post. The fact is the board is titled: Mormon Discussions and as such, it focuses on Mormon discussions. But such discussions need to be respectful of LDS poster morals and lifestyles. And at times, the board isn't such a board.

Juliann and Dan would never post here because they would both be trashed without a second thought by some of the posters here. And you all know it.

Juliann posted in Shades's former board.

[_gramps]

Maklelan wrote:

Hardly sustaining them as prophets, seers or revelators. More like: "I am closer to God than they are, so I'll follow God when they fail to."

Apologists do this. Consider their reasons for choosing the LGT over the HGT.

[_maklelan]

Maklelan wrote:

Hardly sustaining them as prophets, seers or revelators. More like: "I am closer to God than they are, so I'll follow God when they fail to."

Apologists do this. Consider their reasons for choosing the LGT over the HGT.

Considering geography has absolutely nothing to do with doctrine and no general authority has ever made an official statement about it, I don't see your point. The only thing they ever say is that we don't know for sure. If this is some attempt to garner respect for harmony's testimony by making us feel bad it's not a very good one. I really wish you people would stop presuming to tell me anything about the Temple or about worthiness. Aside from Liz's timely postings concerning the interview questions, none of you know the first thing about it, least of all harmony, so stop acting like you do. If you want to stand up for her maturity or her nice personality that's fine, but she's not temple worthy, period. I'm a very understanding interviewer. I've given a temple recommend to someone who wasn't paying their tithing, but harmony's interview would be over after the third question.

[_Yoda]

Thanks for posting the questions.

Mak---You missed my point in posting the questions. I posted them so that there would be no question as to exactly what is asked in a temple interview situation. There seemed to be some disconnect on that issue by you, and other posters on the thread.

Why are YOU taking it upon YOURSELF to answer questions FOR Harmony? You are not HER. You are not HER JUDGE. It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to answer these questions. No one can know what it is in another person's heart.

I see that I was mentioned in the above. I have used the screen name "Jersey Girl" for over 6 years on another board but it's new to people on the LDS boards. If anyone needs to know why I changed it back to Jersey Girl for this board, just ask.

There are people on these boards who know my real name, my location and how to contact me. Unfortunately, there was another poster perhaps going 3 or 4 years back who also knew that information. They became angry with me on a message board and started posting my real full name, information about my work place and names of family members. Admin had to dream up some stuff to keep that from happening again.

I am very cautious about sharing personal information on boards like this, only a very small handfull of trusted people know my last name, email, etc. A slightly larger handfull of people know my first name.

Tell me why it matters to anyone what my identity is? This and other boards, are topical discussion boards. When I choose to become the topic, I'll let you know.

Jersey Girl

Sorry, Jersey Girl...I was not trying to make you a topic of conversation. If I did, it was unintentional. I remembered you telling me that you were using an alias for safety concerns, and simply lumped you in with the rest of us who were. My point is that Internet stalking is a common problem, and it is more the norm than not to post with an alias. This business of people saying that if we don't post with our full names, it's a form of lying, is rediculous. That was my point. Look at MAD, for heaven's sake. Are you going to tell me that "Hammer" is "Hammer's" real name? And we know how hot under the collar Pahoran got when his real name was posted.

[_harmony]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

She cannot possibly answer this question in the affirmative. Exampels: [snip]

My first impulse was to call you a self-righteous prick and show you where you are not worthy of your temple recommend (no one ever is), my second impulse was to dust you off my shoes, but I chose instead to respond this way: my faults are not the subject of this thread. Please confine your comments to the subject of this thread and leave my faults, personality, or character out of it. You have a terrible time keeping your comments pertinent to the subject of the thread! If you want to talk about me, then start a thread about me, but until you create that thread, confine your comments to the subject of the thread.

[_Alter Idem]

Two things;

Mak, I think it's a matter of balance. When I first joined MD before the change, there were maybe two or three LDS sympathizers (I say that for Harmony because though she is LDS, she is not what I'd call a sympathizer). When the odds are so against you it's seems useless to try and post. Also, at that time, there were no restrictions so every time we tried to have a discussion, one of the bitter critics would swoop in and start attacking and it just seemed useless.

Since a number of sympathizers have joined the board and the restrictions are in place, the board is getting better. I think it will continue to improve as the balance improves. I've been trying to post more myself to help make the "LDS perspective" more visible and I have even given the URL to another LDS person I think may post (though I am really crossing my fingers that he'll be treated civilly when he does come).

Harmony, you may not mind the language, but I do-and I don't attend BYU. I posted my concerns on a thread in the Terestrial forum and I think it is something that needs to be considered. I think if MormonDiscussions would like LDS to post, then the owners will need to keep the profanity and vulgarity out of the Forums they are encouraged to participate in.

The other problem I see is one that just isn't going to be solved very easily. It's difficult to have a discussion when some are taking little jabs and potshots against the LDS church or it's leaders whenever possible. I've accepted that it is part of how some people interact and I usually ignore it, but sometimes I don't. This is one area where MADB's heavy handed moderation works because the critics have to be careful in letting the personal animosities spill over into their posts. Here, we can say what we want, unfortunately, Mak, you've found out the trouble with this and that is that it often derails a thread. An excellent example is Harmony's first post on this thread. She took your question as an opportunity to post a looong laundry list of TBM posters' faults. This in turn put you on the defensive and so we ended up with two pages of tit for tat, offending and defending.

And as usual, Dr. Peterson and Juliann had to be mentioned. Honestly, we can't seem to go a day without naming the two "boogeymen" of LDS message boards.