Daniel C. Peterson's book

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_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

asbestosman wrote:
Who Knows wrote:He's a smart guy. I think most people just wonder how such an intelligent guy can believe in such hogwash.

I also think most critics would love to have him on our side someday... ;)


Would critics also love to have Pahoran on their side someday? ;)


Ha, that's a definite no. As someone once said on FAIR to an apologist (i think cinepro might have said it to Will Schryver) - "Don't ever lose your testimony, we'd hate to have you on our side".
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Who Knows wrote:Ha, that's a definite no. As someone once said on FAIR to an apologist (i think cinepro might have said it to Will Schryver) - "Don't ever lose your testimony, we'd hate to have you on our side".


I don't know. Maybe figuring the church out would prod him to reconsider the appropriateness of his posting style.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

I don't have the academic and practical knowledge that Dan does of Islam. But I've been exposed to Islamic culture for many years now. My boss is a believing Muslim, and the industry I work in is dominated by about 90% of Muslims. I don't see them as a threat at all. In fact I'm impressed by their culture and beliefs, and how they have integrated with "western society". I'm perhaps biased by personal experience with these people, but I just don't see the bogeyman that others are seeing, except among the radicals. I applaud Dan's theoretical, practical, and scholarly work in this field, and remember he has lived among Muslims in their own society. Can anyone here make similar claims?

Do you interact with Muslims every day, as I do? I see a common humanity. I will be reading Dan's book, for sure, and I hope it can help bridge gaps of misunderstanding.

And finally, let me say, the criticisms and put downs of Dan here, and on RFM, are totally out of proportion to reality. It's something like sardines attacking sharks. But if that's how you get your "kicks", then life is short. Eat your barnacles off the boat and enjoy your five minutes of fame. I think Dan's thinking processes on these matters are probably just beyond the grasp of those who like to make him an "offender for a word". And, he's a believing Mormon. I suppose that totally wipes his credibility. Of course. Guess I should have thought of that myself and never taken him seriously. Maybe it's time for me to sign in to the funny farm and admit I have dementia.
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Ray A wrote:And finally, let me say, the criticisms and put downs of Dan here, and on RFM, are totally out of proportion to reality. It's something like sardines attacking sharks.

You are right, how can the Mormon Discussions folks swim with the sharks, when we are but sardines (got any pickles?). However, there is indeed hope for us when Makelen can use words like "pleonastic," whatever that means.

Let's keep our fingers crossed for Dr. Dan winning the prestigious Mustafa Award in 2008!
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I received Robert Spencer’s book about Muhammad a month ago and I thought it was a bit flimsy at 256 pages. Dan’s book is a measly 176. It is always exciting to get a book out, but I think the fans at MAD are making too much of this. Spencer has published numerous best sellers on Islam, and I don't see people cheering him on as if each publication proves he is that much more of a scholar. Hamblin is making a stink about some Arab linguist criticizing Dan because his expertise is Islamic philosophy, but expertise in neither of these fields makes someone an expert on Muhammad’s life.

Dan admits he wasn’t breaking any new ground with this book. That was good of him. I do not own a copy yet, but I suspect it contains the same banal platitudes we have heard from Dan on the subject over the years. His problem is that he reads Islam through a Mormon lens, not through the lens of traditional Islam. He means well, but what he ends up describing is something of his own imagination. He tries to minimize the fact that most Muslims reject his assumptions about Muhammad and the Quran. I’ve been able to pin-point several that he would probably admit are not traditional assumptions. Can he find some Muslims to commend him? Sure, probably some in the west who have Islamic reform on their minds. I bet CAIR would be the first organization to applaud him – the same organization that has become the shake down artist for American Islam.

Every book will have its fans and critics, which is why I do not put too much stock the forwards; especially when they are written by people like Khaleel Muhammad who is used as mop water when he goes head to head with Robert Spencer.
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

maklelan wrote:
why me wrote:I certainly hope that this is genuine kindness coming from the posters on this thread. I think that daniel is regarded within his own circle and I do believe that he has given lectures and presentations on islam to academic audiences but I could be wrong on this.

Daniel seems to be a gifted individual who has been badly mistreated by the countermo critics who seem to have the knowledge of bar stool only because of their personal attacks against his character. And I include RFM in this circle of bar stools.


I don't know if you remember, but a long time ago on the MADB someone was prodding Dr. Peterson about name-dropping. to be facetious and to shut the other person up he produced the following pleonastic list:

You want more name-dropping? (Of course you do.) Here's a partial list, off the top of my head: I've lectured at Islamic schools, mosques, and universities in Australia, New Zealand, North Carolina, Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, and Syria. I've taken active part in small gatherings for interreligious dialogue in Idaho, Utah, California, Kansas, New York City, Austria, Israel, and Malta. I've met with senior cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church in Australia and in Vatican City. I've met, as part of an interreligious delegation, with the president of Israel, in his home. I've met with the head of the "Uniting Church" (the main Protestant denomination in Australia) in his home. I've met with senior Shi‘ite clerics in Iran. I've lunched with the Saudi consul general in Hong Kong and the Malaysian consul in Perth, Western Australia. I've hosted the soon-to-be president of Indonesia (and his eventual foreign minister) at BYU. At one point, at the United Nations building in New York, I addressed a group of forty-eight mostly Muslim ambassadors at an evening banquet. And so on and so forth.


As I hope is at least partially evident, he is very involved in their community and has earned the respect that is payed him. As much as he is criticized for not appreciating being misrepresented and misquoted, he's a responsible and respected scholar.



You may in fact be right. And I give DCP props for being smart, knowledgeable, engaging (at times), a clever writer, etc. What respect he has among his peers, I do not know.

I can only say what I do know, and that is in academics, the currency of respect and prestige is peer-reviewed publications. From what I’ve seen of DCP’s CV, he has not a single article published in a mainline peer-reviewed scholarly journal. And that is after decades of experience in academics. Apologetic publications count less than zero in the academic world outside of BYU. In the real world of publish or perish, DCP’s publication record would not even get him considered for a position at the large majority (if not all) of main line research universities, let alone hired.

I am not saying this because I enjoy taking DCP down a notch, but because I think it is worthwhile to put into context to his “aw shucks, they love me, they really love me” comments, so as to give others an objective perspective. I say nothing different about DCP than what I’d say about any other academic with a similar record.

And to Wade, I am in a position to speak about his, as I spent 14 years in academics and was a tenured (continuing status) professor at the Marriott School at BYU. I went through the grind of publish or perish, and unlike DCP, managed to publish in peer-reviewed journals, quite of number of them to be exact.

What I find interesting is that it is not really that hard to get published, if one gives it a good effort. At the very least, there are a plethora of B journals out there in which it is much easier to get articles accepted. Could not DCP have even tried this? I find his lack of peer-reviewed publications to be puzzling given his obvious erudition. He may be a wonderful colleague, a great administrator, a super teacher, a caring mentor, but in academics (or at least at research universities), these are all subordinate (and far subordinate) criteria to peer-reviewed publications.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

Mister Scratch wrote:somebody on RfM is using my name. How interesting! I actually have a registered account at RfM, so if you want to know if it is genuinely yours truly posting over there, you had better look for a "Mister Scratch" without an "unregistered" after the name.


Scratch, were you regstered at RfM last year whn Dr. Peterson found the lovely quote you denied was from you? Was the person who made that statement signed in? Are there any archives available to double-check?

Listening to Dr. Petsrson's recounting of events and then yours has left me thoroughly confused.
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_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

asbestosman wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:somebody on RfM is using my name. How interesting! I actually have a registered account at RfM, so if you want to know if it is genuinely yours truly posting over there, you had better look for a "Mister Scratch" without an "unregistered" after the name.


Scratch, were you regstered at RfM last year whn Dr. Peterson found the lovely quote you denied was from you? Was the person who made that statement signed in? Are there any archives available to double-check?

Listening to Dr. Petsrson's recounting of events and then yours has left me thoroughly confused.


According to DCP, it's convenient that RfM is not archived. I remember the offending quotes, and just like the recent post, they didn't sound like our beloved Scratch.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

Runtu wrote:I remember the offending quotes, and just like the recent post, they didn't sound like our beloved Scratch.


Maybe they aren't, but maybe ours isn't the one from FAIR either. Maybe there are 3 Mister Scratches, or maybe the one on RfM is the one from FAIR while ours is another one.

If only he'd digitally sign his messages like Mike Halcrow. While it wouldn't prove that someone was impersonating him (he could just not sign the ones he wishes to deny), it would at least have provided evidence that Scratch A = Scratch B if both use the same PGP public key signature.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
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_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

asbestosman wrote:
Runtu wrote:I remember the offending quotes, and just like the recent post, they didn't sound like our beloved Scratch.


Maybe they aren't, but maybe ours isn't the one from FAIR either. Maybe there are 3 Mister Scratches, or maybe the one on RfM is the one from FAIR while ours is another one.

If only he'd digitally sign his messages like Mike Halcrow. While it wouldn't prove that someone was impersonating him (he could just not sign the ones he wishes to deny), it would at least have provided evidence that Scratch A = Scratch B if both use the same PGP public key signature.


Hmmm.

Two Cumorahs and three Scratches? Interesting theories, to be sure. ;-)

I'm reminded of the time I was accused on MADB of being a sock puppet for Rollo Tomasi. But everyone knows I'm much better looking than he is.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
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