March 25-Joseph Smith DVD released

Post by **_Gazelam** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:01 am

I called my born again friend and he said he hadn't heard anything about this. Wonder if this thing can be googled to watch.

Post by **_Fortigurn** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:14 am

Start looking on EBay. It won't be long.

Post by **_maklelan** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:54 am

Gazelam wrote:I called my born again friend and he said he hadn't heard anything about this. Wonder if this thing can be googled to watch.

You can view it here:

http://goodnewsforlds.org/video.html

Apparently it's good news for us. Rather than address the doubts that Latter-day Saints have been publishing for decades about these issues, the video just throws everything it can find at the viewer with the obvious hope that it will stick to a few people who don't have the resources to research this stuff or who just don't know any better. It's an irresponsible presentation and the program is a monstrous waste of millions of dollars. Plus, they didn't even come by my apartment.

Post by **_Bryan Inks** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:50 am

A good buddy of mine was given a copy at his work. I'll be snagging it soon.

Post by **_Mephitus** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:14 am

Im gonna keep an eye out for these people, i want to take a look at this DVD as well. If its any good i might do a bit of "selective editing" and copy a few off. Some of the ones I've looked at have some very well presented information, they just love to also preach to you at the end.

Post by **_Fortigurn** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:16 am

maklelan wrote:
Gazelam wrote:I called my born again friend and he said he hadn't heard anything about this. Wonder if this thing can be googled to watch.

You can view it here:

http://goodnewsforlds.org/video.html

Apparently it's good news for us. Rather than address the doubts that Latter-day Saints have been publishing for decades about these issues, the video just throws everything it can find at the viewer with the obvious hope that it will stick to a few people who don't have the resources to research this stuff or who just don't know any better. It's an irresponsible presentation and the program is a monstrous waste of millions of dollars. Plus, they didn't even come by my apartment.

I haven't seen the video, but I have read quite a bit of the FAIR response. I have to say that the FAIR response is potentially more damaging than the video. It hardly deals with the strongest points at all, and frequently quotes the video and then argues against something the video didn't say.

The weakest parts of the FAIR article are:

* Archaeology: Mormon apologists want to say 'We don't know where the events of the Book of Mormon took place', which contradicts the fact that they looked for evidence of these events in North American for around 100 years, then gave up and started looking in Meso-America, claiming in both cases that this was the right place to look

* DNA: This article was very brief, basically an appeal to authority, didn't scratch the surface of the science, typical Internet Mormon interpretation of 'Lamanite'

* The Translator: A very weak article which uccessfully contradicts almost every Mormon apologetic I've ever read on the translation process, and only compounds the problem

* Prophecies and Revelations: They really bombed on this one, the entire article attempted to defend Smith from accusations of being a false prophet, but failed to provide any instances of accurate prophecies (the effort to shore up DC 114:1 is hardly convincing)

* Book of Abraham: The usual arguments (why don't they understand that Egyptians writing in Hebrew isn't the same as Jews writing in Egyptian?), expressed extremely weakly in this case ('we know that ancient Israelites sometimes used Egyptian symbols to convey religious teachings', but no evidence is supplied for this vague statement, whatever it is supposed to mean), lots of quoting non-expect LDS scholars to support its claims

It's not looking good. Most of the articles are potted versions of old arguments already online, to which they link.

Post by **_Sethbag** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:59 am

I watched this a week or too ago on the net. The first third or so of it was lame-o EV Bible crap, basically arguing with LDS doctrine. Since I don't believe the Bible either, and I don't believe EV doctrines any more than I believe in LDS ones, I couldn't care less about this part of the video. The rest of it was more Joseph Smith and early history related, and I thought it was a lot more interesting.

Yeah, it's all stuff the apologists think they've "dealt with" already, but their dealing with it is really, really lame, and I think there will be some Mormons who end up being really disturbed by this. Another thing is that a lot of the "dealing with it" that is done by the likes of FAIR actually admits to most of the claim, which otherwise a lot of LDS would just assume the whole thing was a complete lie from the Devil. Admitting to most of the claim, and then reinterpreting it or spinning it, is going to shake some people. I mean things like Joseph Smith married several dozen wives, including some women who were already married to still-living husbands at the time. A lot of LDS would assume this was just an anti-mormon lie. But then the apologists come back with "yeah, he sure did, but it was OK because God commanded it." Well, that doesn't exactly make it all better to some people. And eventually the egregiousness of some of it makes the plausibility of God commanding it really low.

Post by **_dartagnan** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:15 pm

I haven't seen the video, but I have read quite a bit of the FAIR response. I have to say that the FAIR response is potentially more damaging than the video. It hardly deals with the strongest points at all, and frequently quotes the video and then argues against something the video didn't say.

It is also interesting that these responses have no authors attached to them. Who wrote up this crap?

It is also interesting that FAIR says this organization did not want Mormons to see it beforehand. So they knew they were unwelcomed to it yet the "managed to get a copy" somehow.

Well, how did they "manage" that? And who is being "deceptive and dishonest" in this case?

They often ridicule and complain about those who appear on their forum when they know they are unwelcomed. Yet, FAIR's own elite, like DCP has a history of going places (RFM) where they are not welcomed using secret monikers.

So why is it it such a bad thing that they didn't want the critics seeing this until it was officially released? Seems like standard fare to me. Doesn't FARMS retain all manuscripts of the FROB until they are officially published, or don't they beforehand show copies to "Mormons only"?

Anyway, Californiakid highlights the problems with the Book of Abraham section here: http://www.kevingraham.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286

Post by **_why me** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:51 pm

Excuse me for imposing myself on this thread but I wonder what exactly is the cost for producing the DVD? To my understanding such dvds are not free to make. Someone is out of pocket for this right? Now I know that all here, especially the critics are balanced :=) in their posting but I have not seen one post criticize the the cost of this dvd production. You see, ladies and gents, such money could have went to the poor and to all those in need. Instead, it went into making this dvd. Now isn't that a waste of good christian money? What would Christ think of such waste? And so many Americans in need these days. And I am sure that this dvd is not edible. Right?

Post by **_why me** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:55 pm

Bryan Inks wrote:A good buddy of mine was given a copy at his work. I'll be snagging it soon.

And don't forget to give it to Jeff when you are finished! It seems that Bryan is in a better mood now.