Pornography on the web

[_Runtu]

First, allow me to say that this is an apologetic thread about pornography, so I'm kind of annoyed with the hypocrisy displayed by those who whine about "apologetics" and then start threads like this.

I generally only whine about bad apologetics.

Second, I agree with you Runtu, and your point makes up the basis for my argument over in the consequences thread. Pornography is not the only thing that damages relationship-building capacities.

That would seem self-evident.

Third, I'm also a little surprised at the use of a government funded study as the basis for the OP. I know I am making a huge assumption when I say that most of the people in here probably don't trust any government funded scientific research, but it's the vibe I get off of most here (not necessarily you, Runtu). Do you all automatically accept a government funded study, or only when it supports your cause?

Studies are studies, and the valid ones are those that stand up to scrutiny. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people cite tons of studies that support their beliefs without ever examining the studies to determine if they are at all valid.

The following article is an exceptional introduction (and mentions the politically charged nature of the debate, so gov. funded research may be suspect):

Simon Hardy, "Reading pornography," Sex Education: Sexuality, Society and Learning 4.1 (April, 2004): 3–18.

This article explains how and why internet pornography causes huge problems:

Mark Griffiths, "Excessive Internet Use: Implications for Sexual Behavior," CyberPsychology & Behavior 3.4 (Aug., 2000): 537 -552.

This article explores the relationship that exists between preoccupation with sex and use of sex as a coping method in adolescence (why do so many people say masturbation is helpful?), and sexual abuse:

Franca Cortoni and William L. Marshall, "Sex As a Coping Strategy and Its Relationship to Juvenile Sexual History and Intimacy in Sexual Offenders," Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment 13.1 (Jan., 2001): 27–43.

Honestly, I don't think attitudes towards sex are as clear-cut an issue as some would like to believe. Personally, I think that Mormonism does promote a rather unhealthy, guilt-laden approach to sexuality. I am equally certain that you disagree.

[_Yoda]

My sons bother have their own PC's in their rooms, but their internet access goes through my system. I can monitor what they're looking at and restrict access to certain sites from there.

That's cool. Kids hate it when parents actually know about computers. My girls think it sucks. LOL

And yeah, talking to your child about sex is a good idea. Something that pisses me off to no end are parents whose idea of sexual education is telling their kids "just say no". That didn't work for Nancy Reagan with drugs, it's not going to work with sex either. Even worse, that sort of "sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away till they're married" idea only serves to produce young adults who have an unhealthy view of sex.

LOL! Great analogy on the "just say no". Yes, I think that open communication about sex is the best way to parent. If you set up values and boundaries, and explain the "why's" around those boundaries, it makes a lot more sense.

Oh, Liz, just noticed the new AV and sig. Nice. You get props for class on that.

LOL! Glad you enjoy my twisted sense of humor. ;)

[_guy sajer]

My biggest problem with porn is that it turns people into objects and dehumanizes them. Yeah, I know that many of you disagree, but I believe that it does damage to our ability to form interpersonal relationships when we begin to see others as merely objects to be used for our gratification.

First, allow me to say that this is an apologetic thread about pornography, so I'm kind of annoyed with the hypocrisy displayed by those who whine about "apologetics" and then start threads like this. Second, I agree with you Runtu, and your point makes up the basis for my argument over in the consequences thread. Pornography is not the only thing that damages relationship-building capacities. Third, I'm also a little surprised at the use of a government funded study as the basis for the OP. I know I am making a huge assumption when I say that most of the people in here probably don't trust any government funded scientific research, but it's the vibe I get off of most here (not necessarily you, Runtu). Do you all automatically accept a government funded study, or only when it supports your cause?

The following article is an exceptional introduction (and mentions the politically charged nature of the debate, so gov. funded research may be suspect):

Simon Hardy, "Reading pornography," Sex Education: Sexuality, Society and Learning 4.1 (April, 2004): 3–18.

This article explains how and why internet pornography causes huge problems:

Mark Griffiths, "Excessive Internet Use: Implications for Sexual Behavior," CyberPsychology & Behavior 3.4 (Aug., 2000): 537 -552.

This article explores the relationship that exists between preoccupation with sex and use of sex as a coping method in adolescence (why do so many people say masturbation is helpful?), and sexual abuse:

Franca Cortoni and William L. Marshall, "Sex As a Coping Strategy and Its Relationship to Juvenile Sexual History and Intimacy in Sexual Offenders," Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment 13.1 (Jan., 2001): 27–43.

No Mak, this is not apologetics. It is debate. It is offering arguments and then providing evidence/reason to substantiate those arguments. And, more importantly, it is not beginning with "received truth," and then massaging evidence, or ignoring other evidence, to arrive at positions determined through supernatural means, or by appeal to authority, or becaue that's what their parents taught them, all common traits of apologetics one finds at FAIR, FARMs, etc.

Just because they're debating something you find morally objectionable, it doesn't make it "apologetics."

Whether pornography is harmful, and the nature of those effects, is a legitimate subject of debate, and an important empirical and policy question. That they are arguing a position different from the one you hold doesn't make them apologists.

Oh, and by the way, I do not have any inherent mistrust of government funded research. The government funds all kinds of research, much of it by very capable researchers, and in my experience, I've never seen one case in which the government interfered with the research process (though I'm not ruling it out). To dismiss research solely because it's government funded is just plain silly.

I do have inherent extra bit skepticism of research funded by advocacy groups, but I'm skeptical of much social science research (having done it myself for many years), and I also realize that advocacy groups can and do do good research. So the fact that they find certain results does not automatically invalidate those results. Only a simpleton believes this (are you paying attention Coggins?).

[_Mr. Coffee]

The following article is an exceptional introduction (and mentions the politically charged nature of the debate, so gov. funded research may be suspect):

Simon Hardy, "Reading pornography," Sex Education: Sexuality, Society and Learning 4.1 (April, 2004): 3–18.

This article explains how and why internet pornography causes huge problems:

Mark Griffiths, "Excessive Internet Use: Implications for Sexual Behavior," CyberPsychology & Behavior 3.4 (Aug., 2000): 537 -552.

This article explores the relationship that exists between preoccupation with sex and use of sex as a coping method in adolescence (why do so many people say masturbation is helpful?), and sexual abuse:

Franca Cortoni and William L. Marshall, "Sex As a Coping Strategy and Its Relationship to Juvenile Sexual History and Intimacy in Sexual Offenders," Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment 13.1 (Jan., 2001): 27–43.

Might help out if you'd list sources that are available on the internet, Mak. Or at the very least, post the agency/organization, abstract, methodology, and relevant statistics contained in the works you cited. Without the ability to review the information for ourselves, you might as well be making an appeal to authority.

[_why me]

Yes, porn is exploitive but I can also understand what can turn people on. The actresses and actors are superhuman in the sexual act, at least the movie makes them out as such, but reality is different. But still what the women do and the 'enjoyment' of it can be very addicting for the male watcher. The women do what most men would not consider their wives to do. And here lies the attraction.

However, one must ask: Why do so many men and women go into the business? The amount of porn actresses is enormous. There is never an end to the supply and many of the women are beautifully made up and are attractive.

Wow, Why Me, you are a fountain of knowledge.

Are you still in the industry?

At times I can be a fountain of knowledge. Lets just say that I know much about the industry and how it functions. It is an interesting industry that encompasses most of the globe and the actors and actresses are interesting people, where the women are made up like plastic bodies. Unfortunately, the barrons of porn have lost the idea, that the most turn on that porn can give is to show normal sex with beautiful undoctored normal bodies having sex on a bed.

[_Mr. Coffee]

Unfortunately, the barrons of porn have lost the idea, that the most turn on that porn can give is to show normal sex with beautiful undoctored normal bodies having sex on a bed.

That's something I agree with. Most new porn these days is pretty bad. I don't mean that it bad as in wrong to watch. I mean bad as in the production values, plot (if there is one), dialogue, dirrecting, and themes are almost unwatchable.

Another Article by the same guy that wrote the first one I posted.

Problems with Porno

I defend our right to buy and rent pornography if we want to, but I do have one serious complaint about the porno industry: most porno is s**t. The shelves of the average adult video store are full of unimaginative, poorly produced garbage which promotes arrested-adolescent ideas about how all women secretly want to be sexually dominated by rude, uncouth men. A lot of porno movies depict women who don't really appear to be enjoying themselves. But rather than proving the need to "crack down" on porno, this actually demonstrates the need to bring it out into the open. Pornography is not perceived as a mainstream product; since most consumers of pornography are males who keep it a secret from their wives or girlfriends, it is used not as a device for mutual entertainment, but as a release valve for sexual repression, frustration, or aggression.

If a man doesn't try to keep pornography secret from his wife, a lot of interesting things happen. First and foremost, he will be inclined to keep or rent only pornography which she would not find objectionable, thus giving more money to the people who produce good pornography and less money to the people who produce bad pornography. One might argue that he might start keeping "good" porn where his wife can see it and "bad" porn where she can't, but watching porno with your wife is far more enjoyable than watching it by yourself, so it's much more likely that he'll start learning what kinds of porno will turn his wife on.

If millions of couples learned to watch porno together, the purveyors of "raincoat porn" would find their income stream drying up, and their type of porn would disappear not because of censorship, but because the public simply used its buying power to push the industry in the right direction. Moreover, women might even find that they like it, particularly if they become a market force and push the s***** porn producers out of the limelight. But most importantly, it would be one less secret between couples, and you don't need a PhD in psychology to know that secrets between lovers are a relationship killer.

Unfortunately, the scenario I describe above is atypical. The majority of porno sales go to men who will watch it alone and in secret, and that's why a lot of it sucks. The Max Hardcore movies, for example, are downright awful; the women are treated badly, and Max himself is an asshole. Lots of other series are similarly bad, so it's not at all easy to find pornography that one can watch with a partner.

[_Mephitus]

Mr coffee, that's the coolest short essay I've read today. And i totaly agree 110%