Ray A gets away with murder on MADB

[_The Dude]

I admit to being disappointed in Ray. When I first joined this board, I had some civil interactions with him, and I've never been at odds with him. Sadly, however, he appears to have gone off the deep end.

His extreme rhetoric is really quite silly. I've got to believe that he's smarter than to take literally all the BS he's shovelling out these days.

My thoughts exactly. I've liked Ray in the past although he seemed to be on the edge of a precipice. Now it looks like he's fallen off.

I know what motivates ex-mormons: Sethbag spelled it out best. Now what's motivating Ray, I'd like to know? Let's see if I can read his mind.... Ray knows deep down the church isn't true, and he's just lashing out because of his painful inner demons. Of course he'll deny it, but that only makes it more true. ;)

[_Runtu]

My thoughts exactly. I've liked Ray in the past although he seemed to be on the edge of a precipice. Now it looks like he's fallen off.

Yep, that's my impression as well. As far as I can tell, I'm the one he's referring to as the "smooth talking" yet hateful exmo. All because I objected to his overheated rhetoric. I think somewhere inside he's a good guy, but I don't understand what pushed him to such an extreme.

I know what motivates ex-mormons: Sethbag spelled it out best. Now what's motivating Ray, I'd like to know? Let's see if I can read his mind.... Ray knows deep down the church isn't true, and he's just lashing out because of his painful inner demons. Of course he'll deny it, but that only makes it more true. ;)

Yes, it was pretty appalling how they reacted to what Sethbag had to say. Juliann likes to use the divorce analogy, saying that if you get divorced, you would move on and not say negative things about your ex-spouse. But of course, you would if your ex-spouse were constantly calling you and trying to guilt you into coming back, if your entire family were trying to get you to reunite with the ex-spouse, and if people blamed you for the breakup of your marriage, insisting that if you just repent, you can make it work.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I feel sorry for Ray. I think he's deeply conflicted by guilt. I know, I like to play psychiatrist online, and I'm not one, but I've had personal experience of leaving the church when I believed it was all true, and had years of guilt and depression on account of it. Ray is intelligent and well read, but he just can't get past the point of believing in the Book of Mormon, and he has plenty of "sins" on his conscience to boot, and now he has descended into paranoia and vulgarity and unreasonableness that he can't seem to dig himself out of. I hope he gets some real help, and soon.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

It's interesting that the thing that's keeping him a believer is the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the biggest achilles heal of Mormonism and most internet Mormon remain faithful despite the problems in the Book of Mormon. It's amazing that someone as smart as Ray can't think of any other possible explanation for the Book of Mormon than the church produced propoganda of an angel, magic rocks, and disappearing gold plates.

[_The Dude]

It's amazing that someone as smart as Ray can't think of any other possible explanation for the Book of Mormon than the church produced propoganda of an angel, magic rocks, and disappearing gold plates.

Actually, it's very consistent of him. Ray believes in many supernatural things that most LDS would consider "silly superstition" -- but Ray is consistent on this, while (in my opinion) the others are not. (The MAD posters "grego" and "Tsuzuki" are a couple others who are also consistent in this regard.)

[_Runtu]

Actually, it's very consistent of him. Ray believes in many supernatural things that most LDS would consider "silly superstition" -- but Ray is consistent on this, while (in my opinion) the others are not. (The MAD posters "grego" and "Tsuzuki" are a couple others who are also consistent in this regard.)

I don't think belief in the supernatural is a function of intelligence or lack thereof. I agree that consistency is an admirable trait. Reminds me of why I like Paul Osborne (despite his consigning us all to hell).

[_Seven]

I just want to ask one question: Why are exmos so obsessed with Mormonism? Can't get rid of your residual beliefs? Too much time on your hands? Want to prove something which will save the world from "religious fanaticism"?

What I don't get is this: Exmos say they've found true happiness out of Mormonism, a peace and serenity they never found within the confines of "the cult" , yet they have to come back to stab Mormonism in the back, to get rid of the "fundamentalist obsession" which is a "grave threat" to the world. On the one hand they argue that Mormonism is insignificant, irrelevant, yet they act as if it's threat. A threat to what?

I conjecture that many exmos on the net are the same obsessive types that would be "Pharisees" if they were still active Mormons.

[SNIP]
I'm calling a spade a spade, here. Exmos, antis, critics, what motivates you? Why are you so obsessed with the religion you once belonged to? If I was a true unbeliever I would not waste my time. There are too many beautiful things in life to be obsessed with my former religion.

So exmos, share your thoughts.

Does it occur to you that the severe reaction by exmos does, in a way, prove that there is something very powerful about Mormomism?

[SNIP]
Thanks in advance for the replies, exmos. (I still think some of you have doubts, wavering, and residual beliefs you just can't get out of your system, and you need to purge that by coming on LDS boards. It's a glaring truth to me, even when you fervently deny it.

I know several ex Mormons (many are extended and some direct family members). They have never been on any website to chat about religion and never will. They will only engage in conversation on Mormonism if other LDS invite them to or say cruel things about their character for leaving the Mormon religion.

I have a question for Ray if he responds here. What is the reason for non LDS who post "obsessively" on LDS discussion boards? Deep down do they have doubts, wavering and residual beliefs that something they learned is true?

Out of curiousity I visited a recovery board for Jehova Witnesses. Their obsession with discussing that religion must indicate it's truth by Ray's logic.

Why are apologists and TBMs so obsessed with defending Mormonism? It must be because deep down they know critics are right and must construct a dishonest defense for immoral behavior and history to save their testimony.

[_Yong Xi]

I said I wasn't goint to comment on Ray, but his behaviour is so atrocious that I can't resist.

Ray is the modern day Martin Harris. As you may recall, Martin joined 12 or 13 churches during his lifetime. Five of those were prior to his introduction to Mormonism. After that, he hooked up with six or seven different offshoots of Mormonism. Like Ray, Martin never denied his testimony of the Book of Mormon. He could just never stick with the original Mormon church, though. Also, Martin was heavily into the supernatural, spooks and all, just like Ray.

Martin was destitute in his old age and the saints in Utah paid for his move to Cache County in Northern Utah where he rejoined the church. The play, "The Man Who Knew", is about Martin Harris. Apparently, Martin knew, but just couldn't commit. Sounds alot like Ray. No matter how bad his behavior, the saints will still accept him because Ray cannot deny the Book of Mormon.

Ray A, the volatile, modern day Martin Harris.

[_beastie]

I do not believe Ray is genuinely asking "why", because he has been told "why" over, and over, and over, and over.... just like Juliann and all the others have been. They just don't like the answer. They want their own answer to be true - exmormons are "obsessed" (however that is measured) because they are angry, miserable, hateful, AND, deep down, know the church is true. Apparently there is something in that belief that comforts them.

I think that the likelihood that the LDS church is actually what it claims to me is about equivalent to the likelihood that the claims of Scientology are legitimate.

With the exception of when I find an interesting book about Mormon history, the only time I think about Mormonism all day long is when I come here. It's entertainment and distraction.

[_The Dude]

Ray A, the volatile, modern day Martin Harris.

Holy cow, man. That's an interesting comparison... too bad we can't start a personal thread over on MAD and ask the TBMs what they think of this parallel. I'd like to know.