The Great Apostacy Doctrine or Not

[_Gazelam]

The massive Apostasy is the one being addressed here.

There has always been and will always be Apostasy. Some have said that you can compare it to the waxing and waneing of the moon. The one we're talking about was the total darkness of the "Dark ages".

And also: Polygamy: Stil a doctrine, just not asked to practice at this time.

Adam-God: Never doctrine, merely opinion strightened out by Modern prophets.

Blood Atonement: Still doctrine, just not practiced until there is a theocracy.

[_Jason Bourne]

And also: Polygamy: Stil a doctrine, just not asked to practice at this time.

yea you are right But Pres Hinckley says it is not doctrine.

Adam-God: Never doctrine, merely opinion strightened out by Modern prophets.

I think you need to keep saying this to believe it. You are simply wrong.

Blood Atonement: Still doctrine, just not practiced until there is a theocracy.

You are the only apologist I have ever seen say this was doctrine. Most claim it was not and is not.

[_Blixa]

Blood Atonement: Still doctrine, just not practiced until there is a theocracy.

Or like there was in the state of Desert.

[_Bond...James Bond]

The massive Apostasy is the one being addressed here.

There has always been and will always be Apostasy. Some have said that you can compare it to the waxing and waneing of the moon. The one we're talking about was the total darkness of the "Dark ages".

Okay....when was the Great Apostacy and when were the Dark Ages? Dates please.

[_JAK]

The massive Apostasy is the one being addressed here.

There has always been and will always be Apostasy. Some have said that you can compare it to the waxing and waneing of the moon. The one we're talking about was the total darkness of the "Dark ages".

Okay....when was the Great Apostacy and when were the Dark Ages? Dates please.

The Great Schisms (plural)


Wikipedia

Eastern & Western Christianity (Encyclopedia Britannica)

Schism (Encyclopedia Britannica)

In Christianity, a break in the unity of the church.

In the early church, “schism” was used to describe those groups that broke with the church and established rival churches. The term originally referred to those divisions that were caused by disagreement over something other than basic doctrine. Thus, the schismatic group was not necessarily heretical. Eventually, however, the distinctions between schism and heresy gradually became less clear, and disruptions in the church caused by disagreements over doctrine as well as disruptions caused by other disagreements were eventually all referred to as schismatic.

The most significant medieval schism was the East-West schism that divided Christendom into Western (Roman Catholic) and Eastern (Orthodox) branches. It began in 1054 because of various disputes and actions, and it has never been healed, although in 1965 Pope Paul VI and the ecumenical patriarch Athenagoras I abolished the mutual excommunications of 1054 of the pope and the patriarch of Constantinople (see 1054, Schism of). Another important medieval schism was the Western Schism (q.v.) between the rival popes of Rome and Avignon and, later, even a third pope. The greatest of the Christian schisms was that involving the Protestant Reformation and the division from Rome.

Opinions concerning the nature and consequences of schism vary with the different conceptions of the nature of the church. According to Roman Catholic canon law, a schismatic is a baptized person who, though continuing to call himself a Christian, refuses submission to the pope or fellowship with members of the church. Other churches have similarly defined schism juridically in terms of separation from their own communion.

In the 20th century the ecumenical movement has worked for cooperation among and reunion of churches, and the greater cooperation between Roman Catholics and Protestants after the second Vatican Council (1962–65) has resulted in more flexible attitudes within the churches concerning the problems of schism.


What Evangelicals Really Want

Schism In The United Methodist Church

National Public Radio and links

Global Schism

The word schism, from the Greek's schisma, means a division or a split, usually in an organization. A schismatic is a person who creates or incites schism in an organization or who is a member of a splinter group. Schismatic as an adjective means pertaining to a schism or schisms, or to those ideas, policies, etc., that are thought to lead towards or promote schism.

Usage within Christianity

The words schism and schismatic have found perhaps their heaviest usage in the history of Christianity, to denote splits within a church or religious body. In this context, schismatic as a noun denotes a person who creates or incites schism in a church or is a member of a splinter church, and schismatic as an adjective refers to ideas and things that are thought to lead towards or promote schism, often describing a church that has departed from whichever communion the user of the word considers to be the true Christian church. These words have been used to denote both the phenomenon of Christian group splintering in general, and certain significant historical splits in particular.

Thus, within Christianity the word schism may refer to:

· The offense of inciting divisions among Christians.

· The event of two groups of Christians ceasing to be in communion with each other, so that, whereas they formerly could worship together, they decide they must worship separately because of disagreements between them.

· The Great Schism; either of two rifts within the Christian church.

· See Old believers and Raskol for schism within the Russian Orthodox Church.

· Any Christian communion or sect that has left the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Which church constitutes the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has long been disputed: for instance, the Roman Catholic Church claims that title and considers the Eastern Orthodox Communion to be in schism, while the Eastern Orthodox Communion also claims that title and holds that the Catholic Communion is schismatic and heretical; meanwhile, the Protestant movement considers them both to be in error, as does the Restorationist movement, also including the Protestants in that error.

In the early centuries of Christianity, schism was considered by many Christians to be as serious or more serious than heresy. Within the Roman Catholic Church schism is still an act that incurs automatic excommunication as a penalty.

Source for just above

JAK

[_Gazelam]

Books available at Deseret Book on the subject:



James E. Talmage's thorough discussion of the significance of the great apostasy as a condition for the reestablishment of the Church in modern times. A summary of the most important evidences of the decline and final extinction of the primitive church. Helpful for missionaries and investigators. Offers a clear understanding of the apostasy and the restoration of the priesthood.



Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol. 3: The World and the Prophets

by Hugh Nibley

In 1954, Hugh Nibley delivered a series of weekly lectures on KSL Radio. The series called "Time Vindicates the Prophets," was given in answer to those who were challenging the right of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to call themselves Christians.

Just as the Church's beliefs and institutions were under attack when these lectures were first given, so today's critics are again attacking the Latter-day Saints' conception of God, their claim to continuous revelation, their belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, their acceptance of the Book of Mormon as a true record, and their insistence that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ. The answers given by professor Nibley then are a valid today as they are timely.

Dr. Nibley writes: "We make no attempt to argue out the position of the Church... Here we are simply indicating briefly that for better or worse, the Mormons consistently find themselves in a company of ancient Saints and, accordingly far removed from the ways of conventional Christians... It is a historical, not a theological or philosophical, vindication of our prophets."

But Professor Nibley does far more than point out identities of doctrines, practices, and institutions between Latter-day Saints and Christians. He also describes with great clarity how the Church changed from an organization with inspired prophets into a thoroughly different and alien institution built upon the learning of men. He shows how prophecy was replaced with self-induced mystical experience, and how the magical wonder-making of the pagans was substituted for the gifts of the spirit.

The World and the Prophets demonstrates that the whole philosophical theological enterprise, however well intended, is incompatible with the existence of continuing revelation. As Joseph Smith wrote, "Persecutions may rage, mobs may continue, armies may assemble, calumny may defame," but there will always be an unbridgeable gap between the world and the prophets.

This book is also available as a cd:

[_Gazelam]

The Apostacy started with the death of the original Apostles.

It wasn't any speedy thing, but was well underway by 200 AD.

As far as the Dark Ages are concerned, there is a reason the following period was called the Rennaisance.

[_Blixa]

I'm starting to think, Gaz, that you get a commission from either or both Deseret Books and the Nibley estate.

Libraries are useful things...and they carry a wide variety of viewpoints...

[_JAK]

The Apostacy started with the death of the original Apostles.

It wasn't any speedy thing, but was well underway by 200 AD.

As far as the Dark Ages are concerned, there is a reason the following period was called the Rennaisance.

Exactly, Bond.

Early schisms took place long before the Protestant Reformation (1517). By the time the Mormon organizations took some shape, the evolution of Christian myths had undergone numerous doctrinal shifts. Joe Smith was a very late comer to the party.

Virtually every religious organization regards itself as the most nearly correct in its dogmas and doctrines. Mormons are right in that tradition of truth by assertion. That approach lacks reliability.

JAK

[_JAK]

The Apostacy started with the death of the original Apostles.

It wasn't any speedy thing, but was well underway by 200 AD.

As far as the Dark Ages are concerned, there is a reason the following period was called the Rennaisance.

The Rennaisance

JAK