The Validity of First Hand Accounts

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_ozemc
_Emeritus
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Mercury

Post by _ozemc »

harmony wrote:Correction. Many of those people (I assume we're talking about new converts) were convinced they had a void in their lives prior to their initial encounter with the missionaries. The missionaries pointed out a way for them to fill the void. The missionaries were not the ones who created the void, nor were they the first ones who noticed it.


You know, many of the Mormons I talk with all seem to have come to the church after a particularly bad time in their lives, trying to figure out the "why" of something.

I guess that probably true of most religions, but, to me, it almost seem as if the church actively seeks to get people who are in a vulnerable state.

Just my .02.
"What does God need with a starship?" - Captain James T. Kirk

Most people would like to be delivered from temptation but would like it to keep in touch. - Robert Orben
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

beastie wrote:Witness testimony is practically worthless. There have been many studies done that demonstrate how unreliable eye witnesses are. The public has the impression that, for example, in a court of law, an "eye witness" to the crime is the best sort of evidence, but it's not. It's the circumstantial evidence that is more reliable.


So you say. In reality, and speaking as one who has tried dozens of cases in many jurisdictions, judges and juries credit direct testimony (witness testimony, things said in contemporaneous documents) much more significantly than circumstantial evidence. That does not mean that circumstantial evidence is of no value; it has its place and I use it all the time. But, the proof in the pudding of the weakness of circumstantial evidence is the effort the judges put into trying to convince juries to rely upon circumstantial evidence; most states have jury instructions telling the jury that circumstantial evidence is just as good as direct evidence. Such instructions and efforts would be unneccessary if, as you say, circumstantial is more reliable. It isn't.

Circumstantial evidence of a Book of Mormon peoples includes tree of life motifs in mosaics on temple floors; earthen defense works as described in the Book of Mormon; art work depicting the presence of pre-Columbian bearded white men, and the garbled myths of white visitors. Direct evidence is Joseph Smith's testimony.

I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony.

rcrocket
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by _Some Schmo »

rcrocket wrote:I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony.

rcrocket


It's sad, however, when the believed testimony is a perjury.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Some Schmo wrote:
rcrocket wrote:I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony.

rcrocket


It's sad, however, when the believed testimony is a perjury.


Your post is so limited. So ill-informed. So provincial. Bill Clinton committed perjury. Adolf Hitler did not.

rcrocket
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

rcrocket wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:
rcrocket wrote:I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony.

rcrocket


It's sad, however, when the believed testimony is a perjury.


Your post is so limited. So ill-informed. So provincial. Bill Clinton committed perjury. Adolf Hitler did not.

rcrocket


I hope your on medication because that statement seems so useless that its counterproductive.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Mercury wrote:
I hope your on medication because that statement seems so useless that its counterproductive.


I think the correct word is "you're" not "your." "Your" is a possessive word; "you're" is a contraction for "you are." Your usage would have been appropriate had you coupled your "your" with "your Highness" or "your Eminence," but you didn't.

rcrocket
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

rcrocket wrote:
Mercury wrote:
I hope your on medication because that statement seems so useless that its counterproductive.


I think the correct word is "you're" not "your." "Your" is a possessive word; "you're" is a contraction for "you are." Your usage would have been appropriate had you coupled your "your" with "your Highness" or "your Eminence," but you didn't.

rcrocket


You're a douche
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

Cool. Rack up another name-calling!

rcrocket
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

rcrocket wrote:
Mercury wrote:
I hope your on medication because that statement seems so useless that its counterproductive.


I think the correct word is "you're" not "your." "Your" is a possessive word; "you're" is a contraction for "you are." Your usage would have been appropriate had you coupled your "your" with "your Highness" or "your Eminence," but you didn't.

rcrocket


Correcting his grammer does not correct his point. His point still stands.
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by _Some Schmo »

rcrocket wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:
rcrocket wrote:I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony.

rcrocket


It's sad, however, when the believed testimony is a perjury.


Your post is so limited. So ill-informed. So provincial. Bill Clinton committed perjury. Adolf Hitler did not.

rcrocket


Limited? Well yes, it was only one sentence.

Ill-informed? I don't think it's a matter of how well someone's been informed as much as it is making an assessment based on common sense and available information. I know the Mormons have been informed that he's telling the truth but that doesn't make it so. It's the Mormons that are ill-informed, when it comes right down to it.

Provincial? You mean like that of an ill-informed Mormon?

Clinton's perjury did not have the wide, detrimental consequences that Joe Smith's had.

And Hitler never lied to the people? Is that what you're saying here?

Um... OK. I can understand why people have a hard time resisting calling you names. If the shoe fits...
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Post Reply