Mormon Misogyny

[_The Nehor]

Sailgirl, the authority to act in the name of God is predicated on righteousness and nothing else. Abusing that power in any way is probably the fastest way possible for a man to qualify himself for a stint in hell and prove himself an utter and abject failure. I can't see God granting omnipotence to anyone who would use the one he claims to love most.

I do not see Priesthood and Motherhood as being differing equal gifts given to different genders. They are very different. I'm inclined to agree with Maverick who answered his father's attempted flattering statement praising women by pointing out that without women none of us would be here:

"Now what the hell kind of sense does that make? If there weren't any men none of us would be here either."

I don't know why the Priesthood is currently restricted to men. I expect it to change. I do know that in my circles it works right now and the men and the women are happy and content and there isn't envy or dominance or misogyny.

Liz, in regards to the guy you quoted I didn't read the whole article......I'm sorry. I usually try to be nice and I appreciate that the guy realized he was wrong but.......WHY? How could he have not seen the suffering and privation of his wife for so long? How could he sleep at night? The guy acquired many degrees it seems but he seems so selfish. He couldn't stop for a bit and maybe try to use them to improve the circumstances of his wife and kids because he wanted another Newsweek writeup? He has a right to feel ashamed. Why is he blaming the Church for having been a prat himself? "No success in life can compensate for failure in the home." President Hinckley taught that one of the most important things in marriage is to focus on making your wife happy. After witnessing more than one bad marriage I've decided that if I ever get married that I will move heaven and earth to make sure my wife is content and happy with the hope that she will do likewise.

I've never been married but I'd like to think that if I came home to a wife struggling to make ends meet with 7 children at home and without basic conveniences that I would at least stop for a second and ask myself what the hell I'm doing wrong to be shining perfectly in the spotlight while she is killing herself to maintain MY lifestyle.

[_harmony]

Here are some interesting talking points:

As For Me, I Experienced the Benefits. -- Here's My LDS "Gratitude List":

I'm one of the fortunate ones. For me, Mormonism worked well. I'm very grateful for:

• growing up LDS (fourth-generation),
• participating in LDS sporting events, plays, trips, dances, group projects,
• giving sermons from early boyhood on, learning confident public speaking,
• avoiding tobacco, alcohol, harmful friendships, illicit sex,
• marrying a fourth-generation LDS girl in an LDS temple (Idaho Falls),
• serving a full-time mission,
• raising seven morally clean and healthy LDS children (five daughters and two sons).
• being taught and encouraged by numerous LDS women, my teachers in various church auxiliaries,

Virtually all of the valuable formative influences on me throughout boyhood and teen years were church-related. LDS clergy, doctrine and training taught me to love education, motivating me to achievements I'm sure I never would have reached without it. Examples:

• studied at U. of Illinois, BYU (honors B.A.), U. of Madrid, Middlebury Graduate School (honors M.A.), Stanford, Yale, Georgetown (highest-honors Ph.D.).
• taught at Stanford U., Georgetown U., US Naval Academy, State U. of New York, etc.

I'm certain I wouldn't have developed even a third of that academic zeal on my own. My wife's and my "Mormotivation" was so focused for nineteen years that we honestly didn't even know, until our oldest daughter told us (sparing our pride 'til then), that for years she'd known that our family was eligible for free school lunches and food stamps.

The Costs of Focus: I've described the benefits of focus, but there were heavy costs. As with flashlights, the brightness of a focused beam is offset by the dimness or even darkness around it.

My Wife's Less-Positive List:

Please reread the "gratitude-reasons" above, noticing that they are mostly my reasons, not my wife's. As head-of-family priesthood bearer, I benefited far more from Mormonism than she did. While I proudly acquired degrees, respect, Time and Newsweek write-ups, as well as spousal love and support, my loyal wife accumulated her own list (unexaggerated):

• Internalized the Book of Mormon's demeaning description of her gorgeous brown skin: "dark and loathsome." (She is Samoan)
• Felt second-class and chronically drained,
• Suffered years-long psychosomatic eczema that oozed, blistered, bled and looked like radiation burns.
• Bore eight children (that's 72 months pregnant),
• Raised seven of them to maturity (an eighth died in infancy),
• Hand-sewed all the clothes for our daughters, except thrift-store purchases,
• Did all cleaning up after nine people (often with no washer or dryer at home),
• Prepared almost all meals for nine people,
• Did work-horse shopping and errands for nine people,
• Held a few part-time jobs (out of the house) for extra income,
• Managed all household finances, did all letter writing, bill paying, record keeping, income-tax calculating and filing,
• Practiced spartan self-denial on my grad-student and teacher income,

In Short: She Struggled and Stagnated . . . Enabling Me To Star and Strut.

What astonishes me now is recalling that, at that time, I blithely took for granted everything she was doing. I'm ashamed to admit that I never gave most of it a second thought.

I was too busy exulting in my LDS male role to even perceive her work-horse status, which I accepted as normal status quo, nor did I notice (nor would I have understood) that some Mormon beliefs are direct root causes of serious harm to many women.

And if I had noticed, I'd have assumed I was wrong because, after all, how could God's only true Church directly harm righteous women? That would have been my "unarguably correct" LDS logic.

Lord have mercy, but that makes me cry. I just sent it to all my sons, and to my son-in-law.

[_sailgirl7]

Sailgirl, the authority to act in the name of God is predicated on righteousness and nothing else.

That is half right/half wrong. I was taught that one aspect of the Priesthood is the authority to act in the name of God. Only a man can recieve (be ordained to ) the priesthood. It is predicated on him being a MAN first. Once he recieves it, his actions will bring consequences. But he could never have had the ability to abuse it had God not made him a man. Conversely are you saying that a righteous woman has the authority to act in the name of God in the same sense as a man can with the priesthood?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Have any of you ever read the http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/ site?

Here's something I just read there. http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=1223

[_Blixa]

When I was about 16, I stopped going to church. Why? One reason was that I felt the Mormon church wanted to limit my potential and confine me to only one part of life. Over and over again I was told not to worry about education. "You'll study yourself right out of a husband!" "If you want to be an English professor, you can marry one and help him in his work!"

Also, I used to watch the mentally handicapped brother of a friend of mine bang his head against the chapel wall while he was sitting in front with the aaronic priesthood blessing the sacrament. He'd bang his head and mumble and drool, but because he was a man and could "hold the priesthood," "the gospel" placed him in spiritual and temporal authority over me.

I wanted more respect than that.

I have looked at FMH, barrel--incidently, there is an article on them in this month's Bust magazine. I find most of the viewpoints I've read there to be confused, contorted attempts to make a round peg fit in a square hole. Heavenly Mother notwithstanding, the Proclamation on the Family established a line that could only accomodate an essentialist and moralizing feminism: in other words, a coservative feminism only interested in reforming a few aspects of current social arrangements (unsurprisingly, those that would benefit already privileged echelons of females) rather than their transformation for the good of all.

[_Yoda]

Liz, in regards to the guy you quoted I didn't read the whole article......I'm sorry. I usually try to be nice and I appreciate that the guy realized he was wrong but.......WHY? How could he have not seen the suffering and privation of his wife for so long? How could he sleep at night? The guy acquired many degrees it seems but he seems so selfish. He couldn't stop for a bit and maybe try to use them to improve the circumstances of his wife and kids because he wanted another Newsweek writeup? He has a right to feel ashamed. Why is he blaming the Church for having been a prat himself? "No success in life can compensate for failure in the home." President Hinckley taught that one of the most important things in marriage is to focus on making your wife happy. After witnessing more than one bad marriage I've decided that if I ever get married that I will move heaven and earth to make sure my wife is content and happy with the hope that she will do likewise.

I've never been married but I'd like to think that if I came home to a wife struggling to make ends meet with 7 children at home and without basic conveniences that I would at least stop for a second and ask myself what the hell I'm doing wrong to be shining perfectly in the spotlight while she is killing herself to maintain MY lifestyle.

Nehor---You are definitely one of the "good guys". This is why you are one of my "boy toys" in the Goddess villa. LOL

I agree that this guy was a complete jerk and should have realized what the hell was going on with his wife in his own household. I'm by no means giving him a "pass". I think that men outside the Church who have wives who choose to be homemakers are guilty of these types of behaviors as well.

However, I'm sure that you can't deny that Church culture lends itself to this type of behavior. Like you, I'm always amazed when I see people who blindly fall into this, but it happens. And what I object to, is that these types of behaviors are outwardly rewarded and revered within LDS culture. Should they be? Of course not! People should think for themselves. And, yes, there is much lip service given to "no success is greater than success in the home". BUT---Within LDS culture, let's take a long hard look at reality.

Women who have large families are celebrated and highlighted in Relief Society. Usually these same women with multiple small kids have husbands who are called to the Bishopric, Stake Presidencies, High Council, etc. These men are NEVER home between their Church and the job responsibilities. There are only 24 hours in a day! Even the "good guys" can get caught up in this without realizing what's happening!

[_KimberlyAnn]

When I was about 16, I stopped going to church. Why? One reason was that I felt the Mormon church wanted to limit my potential and confine me to only one part of life. Over and over again I was told not to worry about education. "You'll study yourself right out of a husband!" "If you want to be an English professor, you can marry one and help him in his work!"

Also, I used to watch the mentally handicapped brother of a friend of mine bang his head against the chapel wall while he was sitting in front with the aaronic priesthood blessing the sacrament. He'd bang his head and mumble and drool, but because he was a man and could "hold the priesthood," "the gospel" placed him in spiritual and temporal authority over me.

I wanted more respect than that.

I have looked at FMH, barrel--incidently, there is an article on them in this month's Bust magazine. I find most of the viewpoints I've read there to be confused, contorted attempts to make a round peg fit in a square hole. Heavenly Mother notwithstanding, the Proclamation on the Family established a line that could only accomodate an essentialist and moralizing feminism: in other words, a coservative feminism only interested in reforming a few aspects of current social arrangements (unsurprisingly, those that would benefit already privileged echelons of females) rather than their transformation for the good of all.

Blixa, you reminded me of a fairly recent quote of Hinckley's. Here's what he had to say to the men: "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own?"

What exactly does Hinckley think is wrong with a woman being more educated than her husband? Could it be that she'd be too uppity to happily remain in a subservient role? Hmmm...

KA - More educated than her husband.

[_Doctor Steuss]

Blixa, you reminded me of a fairly recent quote of Hinckley's. Here's what he had to say to the men: "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own?"

What exactly does Hinckley think is wrong with a woman being more educated than her husband? Could it be that she'd be too uppity to happily remain in a subservient role? Hmmm...

KA - More educated than her husband.

I for one hope to one day end up with a woman whose intellect is far superior to my own. Thus far though, the many that I've found can't tolerate my stupidity. Perhaps I'm aiming too high *shrugs*

DS - Happily subservient and not at all uppity (as long as you leave the toilet seat up that is)

[_KimberlyAnn]

Blixa, you reminded me of a fairly recent quote of Hinckley's. Here's what he had to say to the men: "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own?"

What exactly does Hinckley think is wrong with a woman being more educated than her husband? Could it be that she'd be too uppity to happily remain in a subservient role? Hmmm...

KA - More educated than her husband.

I for one hope to one day end up with a woman whose intellect is far superior to my own. Thus far though, the many that I've found can't tolerate my stupidity. Perhaps I'm aiming too high *shrugs*

DS - Happily subservient and not at all uppity (as long as you leave the toilet seat up that is)

Well, I suspect if you want a woman who's intellect is far superior to your own that you're going to be looking for quite a while, DS. Perhaps those that you've found are too dense to appreciate your sharp wit? You're not finding your dates at Stake Singles Dances are you?

KA - Subservient or Dominant depending on my mood.

[_Blixa]

(as long as you leave the toilet seat up that is)

Deal breaker. ; )