Doctor Steuss wrote:If you could prove that G-d is omniscient, I would lose all respect for Him for sending me to the crap-hole of an existence and for putting me through all of the never-ending mental suffering when He already knew the outcome and could have simply consigned me to a kingdom without putting me through so much crap to begin with.
One of the possibilities in Mormonism is that the afterlife isn't necessarily a reward for our behavior and faith (although it seems to do this to some extent). It seems that the afterlife is an extension of this one where in this life we exercise our spirituality at least as much as we have it tested to see how good we are.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Doctor Steuss wrote:Groovy question Tarski. This is why I adhere to the heresy that G-d is increasing in knowledge and does not know "all."
One that I've been toying with lately is: "G-d revealed through scripture that He cannot lie. But, how do we know He wasn't lying when He said that?"
If you could prove that God is not omniscient I would no longer strive to obey him completely. I'd view him as a great counselor and friend but if he doesn't know everything then I can not have faith in him. He might have made a mistake and be unable to fulfill his promises. He might make a mistake and destroy himself. At that point he becomes a wise spiritual being I would probably consult with and trust he is trying to do right thing....but worship him? No.
If you could prove that G-d is omniscient, I would lose all respect for Him for sending me to the crap-hole of an existence and for putting me through all of the never-ending mental suffering when He already knew the outcome and could have simply consigned me to a kingdom without putting me through so much crap to begin with.
True dat.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
asbestosman wrote: Interesting take on that, but I view it differently. I could completely trust a being who wasn't omniscient so long as His knowledge was absolute in the things relevant to His promises and His advice to me. One wonders, for example, what God uses His Urim and Thumim for upon which He resides which reveals things (D&C 130) if indeed God already knows the answer. Sure, maybe it's for God's servants or maybe it helps us study to become omniscient.
Knowledge is interrelated, I don't think it's possible to say I'm absolutely sure B will follow A unless you know every possible variable. My understanding of the Urim and Thummim is different than yours, I think.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Doctor Steuss wrote:If you could prove that G-d is omniscient, I would lose all respect for Him for sending me to the crap-hole of an existence and for putting me through all of the never-ending mental suffering when He already knew the outcome and could have simply consigned me to a kingdom without putting me through so much crap to begin with.
True dat.
You weren't ready for the kingdom you are going to. He knew where you were going but just because I know someday someone will be a good surgeon doesn't mean I'm going to hand them a scalpel and tell them to dig out my appendix.
You say God is omniscient and everyone attempts to smuggle in predestination.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:Knowledge is interrelated, I don't think it's possible to say I'm absolutely sure B will follow A unless you know every possible variable.
Think Light Cones. One need not know anything about the state of matter outside of the light cone in order to predict what will happen within that light cone (at least from the past until your reach the cone's point). Or perhaps think chess. I may not need to know what my opponent will choose for his next move and yet be able to see that I will have him in checkmate within 2 moves no matter what he does.
My understanding of the Urim and Thummim is different than yours, I think.
I would like to know how. What do you think of God residing on a giant Urim and Thumim:
D&C 130 wrote:7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. 8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim. 9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Truthfully the Urim and Thummim is a means of viewing everything so that all is before him constantly. Not sure how it works. The closest guess I have now is a holodeck (to use a crude reference) with an infinite view and total interaction only it's real. Sorry, hard to describe what I think because it both does and doesn't make sense.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:You say God is omniscient and everyone attempts to smuggle in predestination.
You say G-d isn't omniscient and everyone attempts to smuggle in Greek philosophy.
Seriously though, I’m going to have to think a bit about abman’s little comment to my comment to your comment to my comment to Tarski’s comment. It just might make sense… maybe.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
The Nehor wrote:Truthfully the Urim and Thummim is a means of viewing everything so that all is before him constantly. Not sure how it works. The closest guess I have now is a holodeck (to use a crude reference) with an infinite view and total interaction only it's real. Sorry, hard to describe what I think because it both does and doesn't make sense.
I sometimes view the U & T as a giant internet-enabled computer with wikipedia as the homepage.
The idea of interacting with reality is interesting. Maybe the user interface is such that when God points His finger or speaks to the things He looking at that it interacts with reality.
I wonder what would happen if He turned the U&T on itself and interacted with it through itself kinda like when you point a video camera the the TV screen it's hooked up to.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Tarski wrote:You guys remind me of a couple of Tolkien nerds arguing about how the palantiri work. LOL
Were you one of them Tarski? I know I was ;)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo