?????But they are really nice people.?????

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_Hoops
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Post by _Hoops »

barrelomonkeys wrote:Hoops are you intolerant of Schmo being intolerant of LDS intolerance?


Yeah, it's a vicious circle isn't it. So, in a word, yes. But then, I have no problem with intolerance. I am intolerant of a lot of things, screaming babies, catty women, oafish men, illogical political or religous theory, the list goes on. I imagine everyone here is intolerant. So what?
_Hoops
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Post by _Hoops »

Some Schmo wrote:
Hoops wrote: While all of that may or may not be true, how is it somehow morally superior for the op to ridicule another's belief and, perhaps more significantly, ridicule the character the adherents of those beliefs, in the name of tolerance. Seems quite intolerant to me.


I didn't see anywhere in the OP where he even brought up the word "tolerance" (or any of its derivations). I suspect you missed the point.


Okay.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Hoops wrote:While all of that may or may not be true, how is it somehow morally superior for the op to ridicule another's belief and, perhaps more significantly, ridicule the character the adherents of those beliefs, in the name of tolerance. Seems quite intolerant to me.


And yet, Chad has been Mormon. He's seen the members from the inside, not the outside. Outside, we look very nice. We put on a nice facade as a general; the whole every member a missionary thing, ya know. Heaven forbid we actually show what we're really like to each other and what we really think of outsiders. Inside, we are anything but nice.

Perhaps we can cut him some slack, because his intolerance is a result of intolerance directed directly at him personally.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Umm.. I was thinking about something this morning and wanted to post a thread on it. But I'll just hijack this one since it's sort of on point.

I felt very uncomfortable when I went to my local ward. I felt as though I had a horn on my head and had Heathen pasted across my back. They were all very, very nice and welcoming but I was so afraid I'd say or do something that would give away my twisted sense of humor or something they may think was inappropriate. It actually made me feel like crap when I came home and considered that there are all these people that live such wonderful, righteous lives and probably would consider my past lifestyle and some of my life choices (even ones I just don't regret AT ALL) as making me a bad or a flawed person.

Anyway. I wanted to emotionally vomit that for a while now. :D
*edited for lots of typos*

***edited AGAIN***
Last edited by Guest on Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

Hoops wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote:Hoops are you intolerant of Schmo being intolerant of LDS intolerance?


Yeah, it's a vicious circle isn't it. So, in a word, yes. But then, I have no problem with intolerance. I am intolerant of a lot of things, screaming babies, catty women, oafish men, illogical political or religous theory, the list goes on. I imagine everyone here is intolerant. So what?


Well, actually, I never said I was intolerant of Mormons either. I just pointed out that their niceness is conditional. Doesn't mean I give a s***. It just means that I think it's inaccurate to say "but they're really nice people" (at least, as a general rule. I have met some genuinely nice Mormons - but it was because they were nice people, not Mormons).

It's rather obvious that once you threaten a Mormon's fragile belief construct (by the awful sin of not believing it too), they can turn on you like a mother protecting her babies.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Perhaps I don't know enough Mormons?


Book of Mormon - no matter how many Mormons you meet, your experience will always be different than harmony's, and I'll warrant Mormons will always look - and BE - nicer to you than her.

The niceness of Mormons - aside from personality variations which can be found everywhere - is sometimes manipulative. Mormons are taught to show their best side to the world, to show how HAPPY they are, so that the rest of the world will say: WOW! Look at how happy that person is. I wonder what their secret is. I wish *I* could be that happy.

And that is supposed to be the opening to missionary work.

Another aspect of Mormon niceness is the fear of being "bad". Mormonism, while it does accept Christ's atonement as a free gift in terms of everyone resurrecting with a body and in terms of opening the door of opportunity to exaltation, in the end, Mormonism is a very works-based religion. You have to earn your way to heaven (or the CK). Moreover, so much is asked of Mormons that it is very easy to feel inadequate. So being "nice" and happy is almost a religious obligation, and if one isn't "nice", one might not get into the CK.

Then there is the guilt factor - I experienced this a lot - Mormons are taught, over and over, that they are the LUCKIEST and most BLESSED people on the face of the entire EARTH and even in the history of the PLANET (due to the great apostasy) because they actually have the ONE TRUE GOSPEL OF JC - so Mormons tend to feel guilty if they don't feel happy, nice, shiny.

But this forced happiness and niceness sometimes covers depression and anger, which can be manifest through passive aggressiveness (always being late to meetings, over eating junk). And, with certain people, this aggression can be openly manifest - particularly towards apostates.

Moreover, the "niceness" overlay aside, some Mormon teachings are quite cruel - swedeboy mentioned the homosexuality issue, which is one example. There are other potential cruelties - such as racial attitudes or past teachings, the tendency to "idealize", and hence, control women, the association of righteousness with financial success, etc.

I'm all for basic politeness, but when nicety is a veneer coating, it is less appealing.

Having said that, please don't interpret this to mean I find all Mormons unpleasant. That is not true at all. They tend to be like the regular population in that regard. Some pleasant, some not. They just tend to cover up the "not" part more than nonmormons (although I think other religious sects have the same tendency).
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_Hoops
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Post by _Hoops »

barrelomonkeys wrote:my twisted sense of humor or something they may think was inappropriate. It actually made me feel like crap when I came home and considered that there are all these people that live such wonderful, righteous lives and probably would consider my past lifestyle and some of my life chooses (even ones I just don't regret AT ALL) as making me a bad or a flawed person.


*edited for lots of typos*


Come on over to my church. All we have are people like you described. Me being one of the worst.
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

beastie wrote:
Perhaps I don't know enough Mormons?


Book of Mormon - no matter how many Mormons you meet, your experience will always be different than harmony's, and I'll warrant Mormons will always look - and BE - nicer to you than her.

The niceness of Mormons - aside from personality variations which can be found everywhere - is sometimes manipulative. Mormons are taught to show their best side to the world, to show how HAPPY they are, so that the rest of the world will say: WOW! Look at how happy that person is. I wonder what their secret is. I wish *I* could be that happy.

And that is supposed to be the opening to missionary work.

Another aspect of Mormon niceness is the fear of being "bad". Mormonism, while it does accept Christ's atonement as a free gift in terms of everyone resurrecting with a body and in terms of opening the door of opportunity to exaltation, in the end, Mormonism is a very works-based religion. You have to earn your way to heaven (or the CK). Moreover, so much is asked of Mormons that it is very easy to feel inadequate. So being "nice" and happy is almost a religious obligation, and if one isn't "nice", one might not get into the CK.

Then there is the guilt factor - I experienced this a lot - Mormons are taught, over and over, that they are the LUCKIEST and most BLESSED people on the face of the entire EARTH and even in the history of the PLANET (due to the great apostasy) because they actually have the ONE TRUE GOSPEL OF JC - so Mormons tend to feel guilty if they don't feel happy, nice, shiny.

But this forced happiness and niceness sometimes covers depression and anger, which can be manifest through passive aggressiveness (always being late to meetings, over eating junk). And, with certain people, this aggression can be openly manifest - particularly towards apostates.

Moreover, the "niceness" overlay aside, some Mormon teachings are quite cruel - swedeboy mentioned the homosexuality issue, which is one example. There are other potential cruelties - such as racial attitudes or past teachings, the tendency to "idealize", and hence, control women, the association of righteousness with financial success, etc.

I'm all for basic politeness, but when nicety is a veneer coating, it is less appealing.

Having said that, please don't interpret this to mean I find all Mormons unpleasant. That is not true at all. They tend to be like the regular population in that regard. Some pleasant, some not. They just tend to cover up the "not" part more than nonmormons (although I think other religious sects have the same tendency).


AMEN!

Thanks, Beastie!

KA
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

I think the saying: "They are nice people." is stupid on the face of it. I've met Homosexuals I hang out with. I've met some I don't want within 50 feet of me. Same holds true of most demographics, Mormons included. On my Mission some of the nicest people I met were thieves and members of the local crime families that ran the area. I didn't trust them much though.

People are people.
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"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Hoops
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Post by _Hoops »

barrelomonkeys wrote:
Amway.
*edited for lots of typos*


You are aware that Amway is very Mormon. Or is it Meleleuca? It's all the same scheme.
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