Does the priesthood work on incurable diseases?

[_Sethbag]

Do TBMs or anyone else that has faith in a personal God think it is healthy to believe that God, blessings, or what not can heal people?

Why would it not be healthy? I don't think blessings obviate the need for competent, professional medical care. In fact, even if God didn't exist, then belief that blessings help would likely tend to be beneficial to the ones receiving them. Belief itself seems to greatly aid in fighting illness. It won't bring back severed limbs, but it can help one fight germs and otherwise heal.

That's because what you've just mentioned is called the Placebo Affect, and the Placebo Affect won't help with a severed limb. So you think it's fine the LDS church teaching that we priesthood holders have the Power of God and the Authority to speak in his name, and we're really all just talking about the placebo affect?

When I was in my TBMest of TBM days it troubled me greatly that every blessing I ever witnessed or even help give was given by a total spineless coward. All the priesthood holders I know were afraid that their priesthood "power" wouldn't work, so rather than command someone to be healed in the name of the Lord, they would always bless people that "the Lord's will be done". Well of course the Lord's will be done, but the problem is, that's not what you were asked to do. You were asked to bless someone using your priesthood authority to speak as if it were Jesus Christ speaking, and call down his power! You know, the kinds of things we tell people the priesthood is for. So in my own personal blessings I stepped up and excercised all the supreme faith I could and told people to be healed, and didn't, to the best of my ability, couch it all in weasle words. The scriptures gave me the example and the admonition to ask for what we needed and wanted, and it would be given, so I asked, and I tried to act, in blessings I gave, as if the priesthood actually meant something.

But in the end, it's just empty words. We don't, by the laying on of hands, have any kind of "power" or "authority" to get God's power to come down and heal people. The reason we don't talk about it very much in terms of blessings of healing and whatnot is that it doesn't really work, and doesn't ever, ever actually heal anyone from anything that can't get better on its own anyway. Yeah, Matthew Cowley, blah blah blah. Give us more than one example, and this time with circumstances that can actually be examined and verified, from the last 100 years worth of priesthood blessings please.

I think it's just perfectly hilarious that we have priesthood believers saying things like that it's perfectly fine to give priesthood blessings and invoke God's power and authority for a miracle to occur, but that doesn't obviate the need for competent medical attention. Well of course it doesn't.

[_wenglund]

I don't know that attempts at documenting faith-healing of terminally ill patience would be all that productive. The unbelievers would still assume a naturalistic explanation for the successes, and the believers will have their own faith-retaining explanation for the failures. Few if any minds would be pursuaded either way. Isn't that what happened with the studies done with prayer?

I have personally witnessed and experienced what I believe (reasonably and rationally) to have been faith healing. I readily accept, though, that others may reasonable and rationally view it differently. And, that is okay.

I think the following biblical story is instructional, though (John 9):

But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.

19And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?

20His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:

21But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.

22These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.

23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

24Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.

25He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.

26Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?

27He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?

28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

30The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.

31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

32Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.

33If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.

34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. (Emphesis added)

In other words, those with faith will believe, and those lacking in faith will not.

But even more significant, is that healings take place whatever the explanation. The welcomed and blessed healings, I believe, should be the focus of attention, rather than counterproductively quibbling about what may have caused the healings.

Besides, I have long considered faith healing to pertain more to healing spiritual sicknesses and raising people from spiritual death than physical healing. I believe the former cases to be far more prevelent than the later (personally experienced by most of the faithful), though no more documentable than the latter, and perhaps even less effectually so.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_barrelomonkeys]

Do TBMs or anyone else that has faith in a personal God think it is healthy to believe that God, blessings, or what not can heal people?

Why would it not be healthy? I don't think blessings obviate the need for competent, professional medical care. In fact, even if God didn't exist, then belief that blessings help would likely tend to be beneficial to the ones receiving them. Belief itself seems to greatly aid in fighting illness. It won't bring back severed limbs, but it can help one fight germs and otherwise heal.

I just see the potential for serious disappointment. No doubt my own issues with unanswered prayers play into my perception of this issue.

If it brings people comfort, and I know people that it does bring comfort to, there is no problem. I just would hate to see someone put all their faith in God and neglect other ways to help themselves.

[_The Nehor]

In my experience with blessings I always get some divine direction. Sometimes it is not to promise any healing at all. In other cases it involves commanding the sickness to fail and that health will be restored. Some promise a lessening of pain, some the end of it. In every case that the person wasn't screaming in agony while giving the blessing it usually contains some advice as well. Sometimes advice on physical things to do and sometimes spiritual ones.

[_mocnarf]

Silly Mormon, wishful thinking is for kids!

I think of it as obeying the injuction to be like a little child......plus I'm happy.

Nehor, you hit it right on the head.... if it make you happy to believe then by all means be a believer. Life is way to short to live it in a state of discontent. However, I now you realize that not everyone finds happyness and comfort in the same beliefs. To each his own, I suppose.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor, you hit it right on the head.... if it make you happy to believe then by all means be a believer. Life is way to short to live it in a state of discontent. However, I now you realize that not everyone finds happyness and comfort in the same beliefs. To each his own, I suppose.

As long as you don't expect me to stop trying to share it.

[_Sethbag]

I don't know that attempts at documenting faith-healing of terminally ill patience would be all that productive.

I'm quite sure you're right about this, if by productive you mean it would actually help your cause.

But even more significant, is that healings take place whatever the explanation.

Well, at least the healings for things that can sometimes be healed by the body itself, such as remission of cancers, or soar throats, or headaches, or the flu. Does regeneration of lost limbs ever just take place, Wade?

The welcomed and blessed healings, I believe, should be the focus of attention, rather than counterproductively quibbling about what may have caused the healings.

In other words, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." Of course, it wouldn't be counterproductive quibbling if in fact the Power of God were demonstrable in these healings. If a Melchezidek Priesthood holder lay his hands on someone's head who was missing a leg from the knee down, say, and by the time the blessing were finished, the missing leg was back, then discussing that wouldn't be counterproductive quibbling, would it? Is it only counterproductive quibbling when discussing blessings that don't work?

In other words,


Besides, I have long considered faith healing to pertain more to healing spiritual sicknesses and raising people from spiritual death than physical healing. I believe the former cases to be far more prevelent than the later (personally experienced by most of the faithful), though no more documentable than the latter, and perhaps even less effectually so.

In other words, you don't even really believe in physical "healings" through the power of the priesthood anymore than any of us do. The healings don't actually heal anything, so let's redefine the term so that it's unprovable. If the leg is still missing, let's redefine how that person was "healed" to mean they were comforted by the Spirit so they could bear the loss of their leg a little better. Then we can claim that this amputee was "healed", right?

[_Scottie]

But even more significant, is that healings take place whatever the explanation. The welcomed and blessed healings, I believe, should be the focus of attention, rather than counterproductively quibbling about what may have caused the healings.

That is exactly the question posed in the OP. We know that religion claims to heal sickness all the time. But only sicknesses that have a track record of being healed with or without divine help.

So, Wade, do you know of any cases of any disease mentioned in the OP that has been healed by the power of the priesthood?

[_wenglund]

In my experience with blessings I always get some divine direction. Sometimes it is not to promise any healing at all. In other cases it involves commanding the sickness to fail and that health will be restored. Some promise a lessening of pain, some the end of it. In every case that the person wasn't screaming in agony while giving the blessing it usually contains some advice as well. Sometimes advice on physical things to do and sometimes spiritual ones.

Your last sentence reminded me of a personal experience. I once gave a blessing in which I was prompted to tell the women to go to the hospital. I didn't mention that prompting in the prayer, but told the women and her husband about the prompting after the prayer. They did as I suggested, and none to soon since it helped avoid a potentially fatal consequence, and in the end all went well.

However, both members expressed some confusion about being told to go to the hospital, thinking there was little point in calling on the Elders if secular doctors were ultimately the solution. I understood that thinking, but believed the members had missed the point. It is unlikely that the couple would have gone to the hospital when they did were it not for the prompting I had conveyed to them, and absent that intervention, there is the chance the woman might have died.

Was their divine intervention? I suppose we each will see things the way we will, and the way we believe will serve us best.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Who Knows]

It is unlikely that the couple would have gone to the hospital when they did were it not for the prompting I had conveyed to them, and absent that intervention, there is the chance the woman might have died.

lol. Had they not believed in 'priesthood healings', they probably would have gone to the hospital in the first place.