I wore a burka today.

[_antishock8]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... l?ITO=1490

[_The Nehor]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048634/LIZ-JONES-The-women-Kabul-tell-British-troops-really-heroes.html?ITO=1490

That is so sexy.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

I almost wonder if there really is something in the female psyche that demands subordination. I don't know.

I think it's rather easy to assume that women, especially Mormon women or women of other strongly patriarchal religions or societies, have something within them that "demands subordination." It's quite offensive to me to have any man say such a thing, even in such a speculative and inquiring tone. It's not easy to explain but I'll give it a shot because it's important to me.

As little girls in the Mormon church we are taught over and over and over how we are supposed to be good, helpful, meek, nice, pleasant, chaste, and that we should always seek to serve others. We are taught that the thing we are designed to do--yea, even our very purpose, is serve our husband who presides over us, and make our home a haven where we as mothers are to nurture our children lovingly under the divinely sanctioned authority our husband wields over us in righteousness (if we're lucky). We are taught that it is up to us to keep our valiant priesthood-bearing boyfriends chaste and we are to remain pure for the man we are to marry. We are taught that to seek something besides this one role in our lives is to go against God's plan for us, and if we seek anything else consciously, we know fully that we are risking censure from our parents, our peers, our potential mates, our priesthood leaders, and yes, even God himself.

We are praised and rewarded from the time we're young for being meek, submissive, helpful, and pleasant. Above all things, BE NICE. It is widely considered unfeminine and even ugly to be outspoken, opinionated, strong-willed, or to pursue skills or interests beyond those things that help us to fulfil the one role God wants us to perform: being a Mother in Zion.

While the church teaches that women are equal to men, the reality is far different than that. Women in our church ARE subordinate, and powerless to have it be any different by nature of the patriarchy that keeps men in power over them at church and at home. It is perpetuated by the all-male policy-makers at the top. It is also perpetuated by the women themselves, who are less than supportive of (and often downright hostile to) those women who choose to not follow the rules set up for women in the church. And we are taught over and over in little subtle ways as well as in big ways that our value to others and to God Himself actually DEPENDS on us remaining subordinate and meek and sweet and loving and embracing the patriarchy that binds us.

I can easily see why there was a part of Hally that secretly liked the feelings she got while wearing the burka. Not only is it exotic, but we are conditioned to have good feelings when we are submissive and conscious of our man who needs us to be a certain way for him.

The church may not utilize burkas, but it successfully uses other methods that are certainly effective in keeping women bound in their subordination. Breaking free of such mental chains after a lifetime of being taught that this submissiveness and subordination is what a woman *should* value--and is most attractive about her, even--is difficult in ways that are often impossible to fathom unless you've actually lived it yourself.

[_harmony]

The church may not utilize burkas, but it successfully uses other methods that are certainly effective in keeping women bound in their subordination. Breaking free of such mental chains after a lifetime of being taught that this submissiveness and subordination is what a woman *should* value--and is most attractive about her, even--is difficult in ways that are often impossible to fathom unless you've actually lived it yourself.

Excellent post, Sister. And if the girl is brave enough and determined enough to walk outside the barriers the church puts up and still remain active in the church, she is continually hounded to marry, hounded to conform by her leaders, her friends, her family. No decision is correct if it means she chooses to remain single, chooses to have a career while she's looking for her mate, chooses to put off marriage and/or children. She is marginalized even while she is secretly admired by younger girls and older women who wish they'd been brave enough to make the choices she makes. She's a danger to the leaders (fearing that younger girls will follow her footsteps). LDS men are attracted and repelled at the same time; they want to tame her and bring her to heel at the same time they are attracted to that which makes her so different from the normal LDS girl.

As each succeeding generation appears, the hold the church has on our girls is lessening. With each generation, more and more of our girls are opting for career before marriage, are marrying later, are delaying starting their families until it suits their schedule instead of the schedule of the leaders in SLCentral. The POTF is a direct result of this... a guilt trip of tremendous magnitude that did little to stem the tide of women refusing to kneel before the priesthood.

In my area, a few years ago, we had 1 singles branch. Now, we have 5 singles wards, as our children delay marriage in hopes of personal fulfillment prior to taking the plunge. They see the results of too many of their peers who jumped into marriage early: divorce, single parents with multiple children, poverty, and misery. It's enough to put anyone off marriage for a long long time.

[_The Nehor]

The church may not utilize burkas, but it successfully uses other methods that are certainly effective in keeping women bound in their subordination. Breaking free of such mental chains after a lifetime of being taught that this submissiveness and subordination is what a woman *should* value--and is most attractive about her, even--is difficult in ways that are often impossible to fathom unless you've actually lived it yourself.

Excellent post, Sister. And if the girl is brave enough and determined enough to walk outside the barriers the church puts up and still remain active in the church, she is continually hounded to marry, hounded to conform by her leaders, her friends, her family. No decision is correct if it means she chooses to remain single, chooses to have a career while she's looking for her mate, chooses to put off marriage and/or children. She is marginalized even while she is secretly admired by younger girls and older women who wish they'd been brave enough to make the choices she makes. She's a danger to the leaders (fearing that younger girls will follow her footsteps). LDS men are attracted and repelled at the same time; they want to tame her and bring her to heel at the same time they are attracted to that which makes her so different from the normal LDS girl.

As each succeeding generation appears, the hold the church has on our girls is lessening. With each generation, more and more of our girls are opting for career before marriage, are marrying later, are delaying starting their families until it suits their schedule instead of the schedule of the leaders in SLCentral. The POTF is a direct result of this... a guilt trip of tremendous magnitude that did little to stem the tide of women refusing to kneel before the priesthood.

In my area, a few years ago, we had 1 singles branch. Now, we have 5 singles wards, as our children delay marriage in hopes of personal fulfillment prior to taking the plunge. They see the results of too many of their peers who jumped into marriage early: divorce, single parents with multiple children, poverty, and misery. It's enough to put anyone off marriage for a long long time.

I felt a tear run down my cheek and turned on triumphant inspirational music while reading this.

[_harmony]

I felt a tear run down my cheek and turned on triumphant inspirational music while reading this.

You lost me, Nehor. Either that or my sarcasm detector went into overdrive.

[_Pokatator]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048634/LIZ-JONES-The-women-Kabul-tell-British-troops-really-heroes.html?ITO=1490

That is so sexy.

Nehor, Mormon women wear burkas too. They just wear them under their clothes. Do you think they are sexy, too? Oh sorry, how would you know? You're probably just still fighting the abuse battle of your little factory.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor, Mormon women wear burkas too. They just wear them under their clothes. Do you think they are sexy, too? Oh sorry, how would you know? You're probably just still fighting the abuse battle of your little factory.

I do think they are sexy. I know. I won that battle years ago.

[_harmony]

Nehor, Mormon women wear burkas too. They just wear them under their clothes. Do you think they are sexy, too? .

I do think they are sexy. I know. I won that battle years ago.

There's no accounting for taste.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Nehor, Mormon women wear burkas too. They just wear them under their clothes. Do you think they are sexy, too? Oh sorry, how would you know? You're probably just still fighting the abuse battle of your little factory.

I do think they are sexy. I know. I won that battle years ago.

There are many men and women who think it's most attractive and desirable when women accept "their place."