Christians do you follow the right religion?

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_Aristotle Smith
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Corpsegrinder wrote:I agree, it’s silly for Mormons to claim that they are the one “true religion”.

But how is this substantially different from…

…Pope Benedict’s claims that “Catholicism is the only true church”?

…CARM’s claims that “Christianity is the only true religion”?

…Christianity’s claims that “Christianity is the only true path to salvation”?

…the New Testament’s claims that Jesus is the only “true god”?

…and etc.

In other words, this isn't just a Mormon way of framing the question; it's basic human nature.


You are addressing a different issue. The issue is not that people are claiming to follow a true religion. As Rambo originally asked:

Rambo wrote:Anyways, Christians on the board how do you know you have the true religion?


There's a subtle philosophical distinction that you are missing or choosing to ignore in your response. Rambo's question was an epistemological question, a "How do you know?" question. Of course people claim to follow what they think is the right thing, but that's an ontological question, a question about the nature of the universe. You can't avoid having an ontology, everyone has a basic point of view of what the universe is and what the point, or lack of point, of it all is.

My response was narrowly focused on the epistemological issue, that Mormons really don't know what can of worms they are opening by framing the issue as an epistemological one. And I think that's one of the reasons Mormons have so many problems with belief after losing faith in Mormonism. Mormonism, at least the Monsonite/Salt Lake variety, frames the central problem of religion as knowing which one is right. Further, it posits that you can have epistemologically secure knowledge about objective reality based on a subjective experience of feeling. I think this is crazy. But, I think many ex-Mormons still want to frame all religion through this narrow Mormon lens. They still think their epistemological question is the right one and that the methodology is basically correct vis-a-vis religion. Well, no other religion goes about it in quite the same way as do Mormons.

In fact, that's probably one reason why Rambo was getting crappy answers, at least crappy answers as he saw it (They may have been giving objectively crappy answers, I don't know, I wasn't there). He was framing it as a Mormon frames it and that's just not how other people think about these things. I think this is made worse because Mormonism does set up the initial question, "How do you know the one true religion?", based not so much on a burning need that most people have, but based upon an answer that Mormons think they can provide. In other words, Mormons have an answer they want to give you, so they have to provide the question so that the answer makes sense. Most people really don't care about the one true church, they are for the most part content to get something that they think is basically right and move on from there.
_Rambo
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Rambo »

I'm sorry I am going to have to disagree with you guys. I think you guys are in the minority of thought.

If you ask most christians they will tell you that muslims, Mormons, JW's, sceintologists, etc don't have it right. They will say that their Jesus is the only way to salvation.

I have not met one christain say "Oh Mormonism is the path god has chosen for you. You know each person has their own path to god." A christian will tell a Mormon they are in the wrong church and worshipping the wrong Jesus. Don't tell me I'm wrong because I have witnessed this 100's of times on my mission.

So no it's not only Mormons that have this mindset.
_Aristotle Smith
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Rambo wrote:I'm sorry I am going to have to disagree with you guys. I think you guys are in the minority of thought.

If you ask most christians they will tell you that muslims, Mormons, JW's, sceintologists, etc don't have it right. They will say that their Jesus is the only way to salvation.

I have not met one christain say "Oh Mormonism is the path god has chosen for you. You know each person has their own path to god." A christian will tell a Mormon they are in the wrong church and worshipping the wrong Jesus. Don't tell me I'm wrong because I have witnessed this 100's of times on my mission.

So no it's not only Mormons that have this mindset.


Yes, but that's not the question you asked. You asked a "How do you know?" question, and that's not what is being asked or answered. Of course Christians think Muslims are wrong, otherwise they would be Muslims. This isn't about saying all paths are equal.
_Rambo
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Rambo »

Aristotle Smith wrote:Yes, but that's not the question you asked. You asked a "How do you know?" question, and that's not what is being asked or answered. Of course Christians think Muslims are wrong, otherwise they would be Muslims. This isn't about saying all paths are equal.


Dude I am so confused about what your trying to tell me. Oh well.
_madeleine
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _madeleine »

Rambo wrote:I'm sorry I am going to have to disagree with you guys. I think you guys are in the minority of thought.

If you ask most christians they will tell you that muslims, Mormons, JW's, sceintologists, etc don't have it right. They will say that their Jesus is the only way to salvation.

I have not met one christain say "Oh Mormonism is the path god has chosen for you. You know each person has their own path to god." A christian will tell a Mormon they are in the wrong church and worshipping the wrong Jesus. Don't tell me I'm wrong because I have witnessed this 100's of times on my mission.

So no it's not only Mormons that have this mindset.


No doubt, as a Catholic, I believe Catholicism is Christ's Church. Your question is "how do I know?". KNOW, is the kicker, isn't it? Even as an atheist I didn't have an idea that a person could really know anything. I've never heard Pope Benedict XVI say, "I know this Church is true."

I've heard Pope Benedict XVI say more than one time, that Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ. From this center of belief, what is the definition of religion and church. In the broader sense, Catholics believe the Church is all the baptized. So what value does a "what religion is true question?" have when there are many religions that are encompassed by the Body of Christ?

Further, it is Catholic teaching that God calls to all people, and has given us the desire to respond to His call. So if a Muslim, Mormon, Hindu or Jewish person is responding to God's call, who am I to judge their experience? A pastoral minister I know has put it this way, there are many experiences of God, what the Catholic Church proposes is an interpretation of those experiences, rooted in Jesus Christ, and His Saving Grace.

I went through a process to determine what is truth. It was my own, that I don't impose on anyone else.

James 1:27

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
Last edited by Guest on Wed May 16, 2012 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
_huckelberry
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _huckelberry »

What I see is that Christianity articulates the best hope for the human race. I think it speaks and portrays the path on which to move foreward toward that hope. If there is no God that is misfortune but even then Christianity still articulates the best hope.

I do not mean by this that the best hope has been achieved or completed in some time place or organization. It obviously has not. It is an invitation to journey to a new future not the old wars and failures. Let the old wars go to hell. Let us find a new life together.
_Buffalo
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Buffalo »

huckelberry wrote:What I see is that Christianity articulates the best hope for the human race. I think it speaks and portrays the path on which to move foreward toward that hope. If there is no God that is misfortune but even then Christianity still articulates the best hope.

I do not mean by this that the best hope has been achieved or completed in some time place or organization. It obviously has not. It is an invitation to journey to a new future not the old wars and failures. Let the old wars go to hell. Let us find a new life together.


Actually Christianity doesn't seem to have done much to improve the world. The world was in a pretty sorry state until the secular humanism of the enlightenment came about.

I don't deny that Jesus taught some great principles. They just don't seem to have done any good.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_madeleine
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _madeleine »

Buffalo wrote:
huckelberry wrote:What I see is that Christianity articulates the best hope for the human race. I think it speaks and portrays the path on which to move foreward toward that hope. If there is no God that is misfortune but even then Christianity still articulates the best hope.

I do not mean by this that the best hope has been achieved or completed in some time place or organization. It obviously has not. It is an invitation to journey to a new future not the old wars and failures. Let the old wars go to hell. Let us find a new life together.


Actually Christianity doesn't seem to have done much to improve the world. The world was in a pretty sorry state until the secular humanism of the enlightenment came about.

I don't deny that Jesus taught some great principles. They just don't seem to have done any good.


I suppose if you want to ignore Christian culture, from which scientists and universities arose....schools, orphanages, hospitals, government.

Secular humanism hasn't improved the world. Having been at one time a secular humanist, I think it has failed pretty miserably, and to be blunt, is a form of totalitarianism.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
_Buffalo
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Buffalo »

madeleine wrote:
I suppose if you want to ignore Christian culture, from which scientists and universities arose....schools, orphanages, hospitals, government.

Secular humanism hasn't improved the world. Having been at one time a secular humanist, I think it has failed pretty miserably, and to be blunt, is a form of totalitarianism.


Secular humanism seems to be the first force since the rise of complex governments that has been successful in reducing the amount of violence on this planet. Christianity has its virtues, but I wouldn't speak of it as the "best hope for the human race."
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Chap
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Re: Christians do you follow the right religion?

Post by _Chap »

madeleine wrote:
I suppose if you want to ignore Christian culture, from which scientists and universities arose....schools, orphanages, hospitals, government. ...


Yup. None of the major cultures outside Christendom have ever had any educational institutions for the young, any charitable institutions for the helpless and sick - or indeed any government, for that matter. Till the missionaries came, they just milled around biting and scratching each other.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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