DrW wrote:ldsfaqs,
Yes?
So what you are really saying here is that it matters not to you that you are a believing member of a Church
Yes, I am a believing member of a Church, a Church that has as it's two primary aspects that being the Truth and the Right. I take these concepts very seriously, in fact, they are the most central theme to who I am as a person. Since I was very young I took to learning and experiencing what was actually true and right. While most kids were self absorbed in their own worlds, I was seeking understanding.
If Mormonism wasn't true and didn't stand for the right, I simply would not be in it. And I wasn't for a time when I was ignorant on a few issues, thinking it was just another man-made religion. But, I kept educating myself when I was ready to again without unrighteous judgment. See, that's the difference between you and I.
that was founded by a known adulterer ( with Fanny Alger),
And here we have "facts" entered that are not actually facts at all. They are the "rumor mill". The ACTUAL FACTS of the history, the full facts of his life and those around him, Emma herself etc., gives a story very different than your little fantasy anti-mormon tale.
There are no first-hand accounts of their relationship (from Joseph or Fanny), nor are there second-hand accounts (from Emma or Fanny's family). All that we do have is third hand accounts, most of them recorded many years after the events.
If you call that "fact" then you have a very LOOSE standard sir....
Further, Mosiah Hancock (a Mormon) reported a wedding ceremony; and apostate Mormons Ann Eliza Webb Young and her father Chauncery
both referred to Fanny's relationship as a "sealing." Ann Eliza also reported that Fanny's family was very proud of Fanny's relationship with Joseph, which makes little sense if it was simply a tawdry affair. Those closest to them saw the marriage as exactly that—a marriage.
liar ("-I see but one-")
Need specifics, Wife, or what? He had only one actual wife, he did not live Polygamy, his marriages were only sealings, no different than any other sealing to people we aren't "married" to in the traditional way, thus he told the truth, not a lie.
and conman (Book of Abraham, and Book of Mormon)
There is no evidence that he was a "con-man" that plenty of other facts and evidence entirely debunk. I've seen every anti-mormon argument 100,000+ over, and even believed some myself. If your arguments were actually the truth, I wouldn't be a Mormon. But they are not the truth nor "facts", they are half truths, misrepresentations, etc., thus I'm a Mormon.
I'm a Mormon because your "facts" FAIL..... when the whole truth, facts, and evidences are known. What is someone called that claims facts that aren't facts at all? A Liar.... If Joseph was the liar, we would know it, that makes YOU the liar.
once convicted (glass looking)
Another example of your lies claimed as "facts".
1. It was an "examination" not a trial.
2. He was ACQUITTED of all charges, not found guilty nor convicted of anything.
3. Even the Tanners have debunked your claim.
Not in good company buddy in the "truth" department if even the Tanners don't accept this common anti-mormon claim.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/L ... king_trialwho practiced polyandry (11 counts),
Since when were "sealings" Polyandry?
According to the full facts they were clearly performed for the purpose of forming dynastic bonds in the afterlife. There is no evidence at all of "relationships" with any of the women.
polygamy (30 counts),
Again, since when were "sealings" Polygamy?
While there is "some" evidence that Joseph may have had some relationships with some of these women, there is little to no good evidence. We have entirely again the rumor mill and then after his death what I call the "Cain Phenomena" in which women make false claims of relationships for notoriety. Further, "0" of Joseph's relationships even some in which he was believed to have fathered children have resulted in evidence.
Personally, I'm not bothered if Joseph might have consummated "some" of his sealings. It may have happened, and whether it was right or not is frankly between him and God, and we simply don't have enough evidence to judge one way or the other. Still doesn't change everything else that demonstrates the divine origin of most all Restoration aspects.
Joseph said he wasn't perfect, maybe this was part of his sins. Still doesn't change anything.
fraud (Kirtland Safety Society)
Please.... Banks fail all the time. The full facts of the history clearly demonstrate that they simply got over their heads and had bad advice/council. Joseph was still a human being, that is far from "fraud". Banks are a common thing, and the medium people use to try to build modern societies. Your nice comfortable modern life is due to "Banks" buddy. You can't fault Joseph for simply trying to start a business that builds societies.
What a joke, and you claim to believe in "facts"???
and consumed hard liquor,
Critics count on "presentism"—they hope readers will judge historical figures by the standards of our day, instead of their day. Critics also fail to point out that the fact that some forbidden substances were seen as having a medicinal use, for which the Saints were free to use them. Furthermore, the application of the Word of Wisdom did not necessarily require complete abstinence.
Even more, there is no evidence he drank "hard liquor", thus that makes you a liar.
Joseph did drink wine, and some bear on occasion, and he did have some herbal medicine which were a type of liquor, but that's all I'm aware of. And he did sale in an affiliated manner with others liquor to mainly non-members.
Anyway, the Word of Wisdom was just that in the beginning, it wasn't a commandment yet.
So what???
and who, were he alive today, would certainly be in prison as is his latter day disciple, Warren Jeffs.
Not even..... liar. Joseph never broke the law. Again, he practiced the sealing ordinance, not Polygamy.
You clearly don't know the difference between your bigoted anti-mormon fantasy's and the actual facts of history. Joseph did not live with or have known relations with any other woman, Warren Jeffs did. Further, Mormonism when it did practice Polygamy, DID NOT practice it the immoral, forceful, controlling, loss of free agency, etc. ways Apostate sects do. Your trying to compare the two fully displays your complete ignorance of Mormon history, that your only understanding of it is what anti-mormonism tells you of it.
These are facts. And I can understand your viewpoint that they are also anti-Mormon.
They are not the facts, which is why they are anti-mormon. Over and over you people are proven false, and yet you still believe your fantasy's as if they are actual facts of history.
If they were the facts, I wouldn't be a Mormon. And I'm a Mormon because I've studied well in depth these issues, and see the ACTUAL FACTS and TRUTH of the issues and events in question. Your facts are nothing more than perversion, ommision of fact, lies, and misrepresentations, all to tell a great lie, such as Joseph was a liar, a pedophile, an adulterer, etc. etc.
Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about this in the real world except what the Church and its Mopologists try to do, which is to deny, deflect, defocus, and dodge, as well as obfuscate, re-interpret and in the case of DCP, just tell better lies.
Nope, we simply tell the whole and actual truth, while you do nothing but make crap up on partial facts and truth. You are simply a normal religion, and the religious hater, and your hate and bigotry shows as clear as day the way you pervert facts for your own wicked designs, spending your life trying to destroy light.
And by the way, DCP nor any of us are liars..... We are in this religion because of the truth and the evidences, not because it is another lying man-made religion.
It is you who are the liar and wicked of this earth which I've clearly shown above by debunking most of your claims with the actual facts and truth.
