Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt - NYT

[_harmony]

This article is currently at the #1 spot in the "most viewed" list on the New York Times home page.

I wonder how many hits were from behind the Zion Curtain?

[Guest]

Why Sweden?

Does anyone have any hypothesis as to why the information age has taken hold among Mormons in Sweden first, before other countries?

Is there something about Swedish culture that makes it more resistant to the COB's warnings to just pray, pay and obey (and not think for one's self)?

I was wondering about this myself. When I read the actual article this really stood out to me:

Mr. Mattsson said that when he started sharing what he had learned with other Mormons in Sweden, the stake president (who oversees a cluster of congregations) told him not to talk about it to any members, even his wife and children. He did not obey: “I said to them, why are you afraid for the truth?”

He organized a discussion group in Sweden, and more than 600 participated, he said. In 2010, the church sent two of its top historians, Elder Marlin K. Jensen and Richard E. Turley Jr. to allay the Swedes’ concerns. They had a remarkably frank and sometimes testy exchange, especially about Smith and polygamy.

I wonder if Elder Mattsson's willingness to discuss this gave people with doubts a venue to congregate while still potentially under the umbrella of the church given Mattsson's status as an emeritus GA?

Having a GA openly talking about the issues must have some effect on how people responded as well. Maybe more people were less likely to dismiss it as anti-Mormon lies when they knew someone as integrated into the church and it's culture was giving the issues credence. And it also may be why such a high-level response was delivered rather than an unofficial Terryl Given's type fireside.

ETA: I think this may be an extension of the Mormon reliance on authority figures. Having one who is doubting may be the significant difference.

[_Tobin]

Why Sweden?

Does anyone have any hypothesis as to why the information age has taken hold among Mormons in Sweden first, before other countries?

Is there something about Swedish culture that makes it more resistant to the COB's warnings to just pray, pay and obey (and not think for one's self)?

I was wondering about this myself. When I read the actual article this really stood out to me:

Mr. Mattsson said that when he started sharing what he had learned with other Mormons in Sweden, the stake president (who oversees a cluster of congregations) told him not to talk about it to any members, even his wife and children. He did not obey: “I said to them, why are you afraid for the truth?”

He organized a discussion group in Sweden, and more than 600 participated, he said. In 2010, the church sent two of its top historians, Elder Marlin K. Jensen and Richard E. Turley Jr. to allay the Swedes’ concerns. They had a remarkably frank and sometimes testy exchange, especially about Smith and polygamy.

I wonder if Elder Mattsson's willingness to discuss this gave people with doubts a venue to congregate while still potentially under the umbrella of the church given Mattsson's status as an emeritus GA?

Having a GA openly talking about the issues must have some effect on how people responded as well. Maybe more people were less likely to dismiss it as anti-Mormon lies when they knew someone as integrated into the church and it's culture was giving the issues credence. And it also may be why such a high-level response was delivered rather than an unofficial Terryl Given's type fireside.

This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this. If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this. If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.

This was a delightfully refreshing post from Mr. Tobin.

Good on him!

- Doc

[_annie]

Will Schryver in the comments section. Notice he doesn't tell anyone where to look - perhaps like L. Tom Perry, he has a briefcase that contains all of the answers.

Will Schryver Cedar City, UT
Dr. Scratch, Grant Palmer, Bridget Jeffries and other well-known anti-Mormons have done a great job of spreading misinformation about the LDS Faith. For every question about the LDS Church, there is a valid answer. You just have to know where to look.
July 21, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.RECOMMENDED1

Ghost of Studs Terkel Boston
Being raised in the church, I've heard that for years. Turns out the only answer is that answers will arrive someday. The founder of Scientology once said that the way to keep people on the path is to feed them a mystery sandwich. Well, I'm done eating.
July 21, 2013 at 9:52 p.m.RECOMMENDED3

rstill0 Albuquerque, NM
Historical facts that have proven to be true is not spreading misinformation. As a former Mormon, I learned a great deal about church history that challenged my beliefs from this website, http://utlm.org/, and found that I had been misinformed about Joseph Smith.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

All the answers are contained in the missing papyrus.

- Doc

[_sock puppet]

This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this. If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.

This was a delightfully refreshing post from Mr. Tobin.

Good on him!

- Doc

+ + + + +

[_sock puppet]

Will Schryver in the comments section. Notice he doesn't tell anyone where to look - perhaps like L. Tom Perry, he has a briefcase that contains all of the answers.

Will Schryver Cedar City, UT
Dr. Scratch, Grant Palmer, Bridget Jeffries and other well-known anti-Mormons have done a great job of spreading misinformation about the LDS Faith. For every question about the LDS Church, there is a valid answer. You just have to know where to look.
July 21, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.RECOMMENDED1

Ever the obtuse, Schryver doesn't say WHERE to find all those answers, but suggests you need TO KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.

What a poseur!

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Ever the obtuse, Schryver doesn't say WHERE to find all those answers, but suggests you need TO KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.

What a poseur!

Maybe he is referring to his upcoming book. According to William, it will have ALL the answers. Now, if only he would hurry up and publish it.

By the way, kudos to William. I think this is the first post where he has mentioned MsJack, and not been a total misogynist.

[_honorentheos]

I think this is the first post where he has mentioned MsJack, and not been a total misogynist.

I had to smile when I read the phrase "well known anti-Mormons" following those three names.

God knows the entire world is aware of Dr. Scratch and MsJack's nefarious plots to undermine Mormons everywhere. And I'm pretty sure MsJack's husband lives in constant fear over how much she hates all things Mormon and will stop at nothing to destroy the church.