Do Maklelan, BC, MG & Co Ever Have Doubts?

[_Tobin]

In response to the thread, of course I have doubts. Even given my own experience, I can honestly say it is reasonable to doubt it. But, regardless of that , IT DID HAPPEN and I KNOW IT. And I'll know it till the day I die. And I freely admit there are a number of explanations for what happened to me. However, I doubt they are any less or more reasonable than my own explanation for it.

I wish everyone could experience what I have. Not exactly as I did, but to know there are such glorious beings in the universe. And that gives me a lot of hope that this life may not be it. I have no guarantees it is not. But given the seemingly marvelous nature of their existence, I have hope that perhaps they may preserve my being and others as well. And I am at peace with that.

[_Bazooka]

I wish everyone could experience what I have.

You want us all to have our sex lives interrupted by prudish aliens?

[_Tator]

I wish everyone could experience what I have.

You want us all to have our sex lives interrupted by prudish aliens?

That was absolutely where my thoughts went......hilarious....I would have rather had made it with the girl.

[_mentalgymnast]

So why was I able to come to a different understanding of reality than the above mentioned Maklelan, BC, MG and company who remain believers?

I think part of the answer to your question is found in the uniqueness of individuals. If you took BC, and Maklelan and put them in the same room as me, I would imagine we would have our commonalities and differences. Not just in regards to our religious selves and all that this pertains to, but in every other aspect of our lives. We aren't going to necessarily like and appreciate the same art, the same music, the same food, the same taste in women, the same...well, you name it.

What we apparently have in common, however, is that we each have our reasons for attending and being active in the CofJCofLDS.

The experience and knowledge that we each bring into our religious lives is also going to vary from each other. But I would hazard a guess in saying that when it comes to core teachings of the gospel, we would each have faith/hope somewhere on the spectrum from a mustard seed on up to a mighty mountain. And that's what keeps us afloat in a sea of partial unknowns and the unknowables. There is probably also the factor that we have and continue to have experiences that act as spiritual anchors to our faith and hope. Remaining active provides opportunity for those experiences/events to occur. Inactivity would limit and/or curtail the "anchor" spiritual experiences that can come only through doing the things that we're asked/commanded to do. And those experiences are pretty much personal and unique to each individual.

Do they have a larger mental vault, were they better at nuancing Mormonism’s truth claims, are they better at parsing and reconstructing their faith to make it believable than I was?

Obviously so.

Have they found a better way to resolve doubt…Certainly they have doubt.

Of course. But I've come to see doubt as a possible outcome of having to deal with ambiguity and doing so unsuccessfully. Not that this is a failing, it's just the way it is. Again, we're each unique with different backgrounds, brains, intelligence, and what have you. I am finding that I am more able to live with a certain amount of ambiguity, especially as I grow older. I suppose having been patient in living with doubt over a fairly long period of time, the result has been that my doubts...as a whole composite group...have gradually evolved into more or less a certain sense of ambiguity. And I can live with that. As I said earlier, faith and ambiguity can coexist. Doubt and faith, not so much.

They know the same issues we are all aware of and yet they remain believers…not in a traditional sense…but still they believe.

It's a balance scale. And at times the scale is skewed to one side. At other times the scale is skewed to the other. What is important, at least to me, is the mean. What is the average that comes out in the wash, so to speak.

Obviously, every individual is unique and processes information differently…so why did that same information lead me out of the church and kept them in…

I think you just answered your own question.

...and why would this information not have the same impact on all of us?

I think we've broached that a bit. The net result is that the same information doesn't have the same impact.

Why doesn’t it cause them to lose belief?

For me, it has at times. Like I've mentioned, however, for me patience has been key thus far. A lot of speed bumps along the way and having to repair and replace a whole bunch of shock absorbers. Shock absorbers being assumptions.

Do they have that lingering something hidden within the walls of their collective minds...that something just doesn't add up, that somethings is wrong...and yet they successfully ignore it?

Sure. I've mentioned a number of times on this forum that I could wake up tomorrow and not be overly surprised if the "smoking gun" that destroys Christianity and Mormonism in particular has been verifiably proved without a shadow of a doubt, to use Mormon lingo. OTOH, if the second coming occurred tomorrow and Jesus (if indeed he is the real deal) came to SL instead of the Vatican ( an old joke in there somewhere), that wouldn't surprise me either.

I mentioned recently, I think it was to Tator, that some mix of agnosticism/atheism/deism would be the result if I were to let doubts rule over ambiguity. by the way, living with a certain amount of ambiguity DOESN'T come easy.

And sure, the doubts, in some respects, are still there...and the shelf is somewhat weighty.

Regards,
MG

[_Craig Paxton]

Regards,
MG

I appreciate your giving a serious answer to my honest question...rather than the snarky path BC took...thank you

[_mentalgymnast]

Regards,
MG

I appreciate your giving a serious answer to my honest question...thank you

Sure!

Any further questions, etc.?

Regards,
MG

[_lostindc]

I still cannot comprehend how one can claim they "know" but then explain that at the same time as "knowing" they also have doubts. Is knowledge and doubt not a paradox?

[_Quasimodo]

I still cannot comprehend how one can claim they "know" but then explain that at the same time as "knowing" they also have doubts. Is knowledge and doubt not a paradox?

I doubt that anyone who claims to know and yet has doubts truly knows.

Your point is a very good one.

[_mentalgymnast]

Craig, I enjoyed your post similar to my story. I think MG gave us some insight to the issue.

viewtopic.php?p=845970#p845970

viewtopic.php?p=846077#p846077


MG wrote:

I've concluded that if the CofJCofLDS isn't "the truth"...then it's some flavor of agnosticism/deism/atheism for me. And there are a number of reasons for this that I'd just as well not flesh out right now...

So I go with the possibilities/probabilities/plausibilities. And for me, it's the CofJCofLDS unless I come across the proverbial "smoking gun" which honestly, I haven't yet...although there are a bunch of issues, etc., that are unresolved. At this point I'm willing to live with a certain degree/amount of ambiguity...the stakes are high.

Bolding and coloring mine.

MG and BC can't face the red comment being true because if they do they know that the blue comment would be the path they would go. Too scary for them and many like them so they hang on by the slightest thread that the red comment can't be true.

I am almost dead sure that I could face the red comment being true. The Spaghetti Monster knows I've thought about it enough. And if I came to believe that the church held little or no chance of being true I'd hop, skip, and jump over to some kind of deistic/agnostic/atheistic flavor mix.

Regards,
MG

[_Tator]

Craig, I enjoyed your post similar to my story. I think MG gave us some insight to the issue.

viewtopic.php?p=845970#p845970

viewtopic.php?p=846077#p846077


MG wrote:

I've concluded that if the CofJCofLDS isn't "the truth"...then it's some flavor of agnosticism/deism/atheism for me. And there are a number of reasons for this that I'd just as well not flesh out right now...

So I go with the possibilities/probabilities/plausibilities. And for me, it's the CofJCofLDS unless I come across the proverbial "smoking gun" which honestly, I haven't yet...although there are a bunch of issues, etc., that are unresolved. At this point I'm willing to live with a certain degree/amount of ambiguity...the stakes are high.

Bolding and coloring mine.

MG and BC can't face the red comment being true because if they do they know that the blue comment would be the path they would go. Too scary for them and many like them so they hang on by the slightest thread that the red comment can't be true.

I am almost dead sure that I could face the red comment being true. The Spaghetti Monster knows I've thought about it enough. And if I came to believe that the church held little or no chance of being true I'd hop, skip, and jump over to some kind of deistic/agnostic/atheistic flavor mix.

Regards,
MG

I, too, thank you for your sincere answer.