Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[Guest]

So, JLHPROF, what's your theory as to why the microphone was turned off?

False doctrine being preached.
At worst, we can say the presiding authority's responsibility to put down false doctrine isn't being applied equitably.
After all, they allow the crazies to go on with no microphone censorship.

[_JLHPROF]

I am of two minds about this whole situation.

First, should a member (even a 12-year old member) be free to express her beliefs in sacrament meeting? Yes.

Second, should a presiding leader at such a meeting be free to turn off the microphone if he feels what is being said is "harmful" in some way? Yes.

And maybe this gets to the crux of my issue--Is it reasonable for a church leader to believe that what this girl was saying was "harmful" in some way?

Unfortunately, given the current stance of the LDS Church, which the leader represents, the way this girl couched her beliefs was in terms of a challenge to the authority and position of the Church.

And I have to understand that this girl had already said quite a bit for several minutes, and there was no way the leader had of knowing when she would get to the end of her script. Also, given what she had already said, the leader had no way of knowing what she would say next, but I can understand him being concerned that it would get increasingly "worse."

Finally, the leader didn't have to be concerned only about what the adults in the congregation were hearing, but also what the young members were hearing.

Does the leader risk looking like he is condoning this type of speech by allowing it to go uninterrupted?

And maybe I am getting old, but what on earth is a 12-year old girl doing getting up and saying to her ward that she is gay?

I am not sure F&T meeting is the time or place for anybody of any age to be talking about their sexuality.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Wow. I agree with EVERYTHING you said here Consig.
I must be getting soft in my old age.

[_Maksutov]

The church is reaping what it has sown. The culture wars have moved into the chapel.

[_moksha]

And maybe I am getting old, but what on earth is a 12-year old girl doing getting up and saying to her ward that she is gay?

I am not sure F&T meeting is the time or place for anybody of any age to be talking about their sexuality.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

All of this seemed consistent with thoughts a gay youth might have in casting off feelings of shame and self-doubt. That those feelings were described in religious terms was appropriate considering the venue. The Church constantly gives the message that kids should grow up and get married and have many children (as you know, that involves the s-x word). She was addressing that message in terms of her being gay.

[_Mormon Think]

The Church accepts this risk whenever they have an environment in which members can pretty much say what they want (as the spirit moves them) in a fast & testimony meeting where talks are not approved in advance and the comments can be 'off the cuff' or somewhat contradict the Church's wishes.

I don't envy the bishopric (or stake presidency) when a 'rogue' member comes to the pulpit and starts saying things that make him or members feel uncomfortable. Since it was a child speaking, I would have probably taken the high road and just let her finish but what's the manual say? If the church doesn't want this to ever happen in the future then it needs to stop asking the members to give their own testimonies & talks.

Bill

[_I have a question]

The girls mother comments:

Savannah’s mother, Heather, told HuffPost that Savannah first came out in June 2016, telling her that she “felt alone in her thoughts, that the other girls all had crushes on boys, but she didn’t, she liked the girls.” Heather responded by telling her daughter that she loved her, and assured her that she is perfect the way that she is.
Heather went on to say that Savannah had been asking to share her story in front of the church since last January to possibly let other closeted church members know that they had in ally in her. 
“My take away was that of awe,” Heather said of Savannah’s speech. “She is brave and courageous. I would have been terrified to get up and say something so close to my heart for fear of what people think. I’m proud of her, even now, she doesn’t want any of this to be about her, she wants it to be about protecting other LGBT kids. She wants her story told so that this doesn’t happen to other kids. She said she is both happy and sad about the whole thing. Happy because she ‘feels free’ happy because part of me can look at her as a gay person, and see she’s no different than anyone else. She’s sad because she was going to share a story where the church accepted her with no question.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mor ... 5cd5b9e561

This alters some of my earlier thinking, which I will now go back and edit.

[_Jersey Girl]

So, JLHPROF, what's your theory as to why the microphone was turned off?

False doctrine being preached.
At worst, we can say the presiding authority's responsibility to put down false doctrine isn't being applied equitably.
After all, they allow the crazies to go on with no microphone censorship.

To which false doctrine are you referring?

[_JLHPROF]

To which false doctrine are you referring?

- They did not mess up when they made me to be gay.
- I do believe he made me this way on purpose.
- I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.
- I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.
- I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.

According to Mormon doctrine all of these are questionable at least, and possibly just plain wrong.
Now, someone may not consider them "false" but in the context of the meeting in which they were presented they would be.

As Consig put it earlier:

Is it reasonable for a church leader to believe that what this girl was saying was "harmful" in some way?

Unfortunately, given the current stance of the LDS Church, which the leader represents, the way this girl couched her beliefs was in terms of a challenge to the authority and position of the Church.

[_Shulem]

It's the cult's prerogative to run their meetings how ever they like. I fault the official stand of the church against LGBT orientation and non-acceptance -- but the church has every right to control their meetings however they like. I don't fault the girl at all. I don't fault her parents either. I don't fault the bishop for maintaining their cult controls in their own environment.

The only think I fault in this whole thing is the official position of the church against LGBT. We may see more of this activity in the future as the cult wrestles with internal rumblings.

[_Jersey Girl]

To which false doctrine are you referring?

- They did not mess up when they made me to be gay.
- I do believe he made me this way on purpose.
- I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.
- I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.
- I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.

According to Mormon doctrine all of these are questionable at least, and possibly just plain wrong.
Now, someone may not consider them "false" but in the context of the meeting in which they were presented they would be.

Well let's talk about this. Granted I'm not LDS but I'll do my best to relate. I'd like to start here:

1. In your belief, who created the spirit that became the child?

2. When the child became flesh in her mother's womb, was she a complete creation?

As Consig put it earlier:

I don't care what consig said. I want to know what you think.