Is there any real difference between Donald Trump and Joseph Smith?

[Moksha]

I don’t see how that sounds believable, both from the standpoint of Smith’s supposed authority, and the idea that this is a deal that The Lawd would want to make or require.

I guess that I’m just cynical.

Just mentioning the proposition Joseph offered to the Kimballs and possibly other parents.

[sock puppet]

Smith promised heavenly exaltation for them and all their descendants, forever and ever, in exchange for their underage daughter.

I don’t see how that sounds believable, both from the standpoint of Smith’s supposed authority, and the idea that this is a deal that The Lawd would want to make or require.

I guess that I’m just cynical.

Cynical? Maybe. Or perhaps just assuming early Mormons were of at least average intelligence.

[Moksha]

Windmills have given Trump mind worms, which is why he needs Ivermectin. Joseph never once considered taking Ivermectin or bleach. That is a distinct difference.

[SaturdaysVoyeur]

Didn't he [Trump] just say he would want to date her [Ivanka]?

(By which of course he probably meant ... OK!)

Uh.... I seem to recall he actually said both in different interviews, but it's not like it would be appropriate if he "just" wanted to "date" his own daughter.

(Again, I don't think he actually meant it. Trump is like a toddler, repeating any phrase that gets him a reaction without distinguishing between positive attention and disgust.)

This isn't like the Helen Mar Kimball situation, where there is a slim possibility that there was no sexual relationship. The sealing ritual wasn't yet so closely tied to marriage. Men were commonly sealed to other men, including Joseph and Brigham. Joseph's oldest wife was in her 70s, and some of them didn't live in the same location as Joseph. So it's safe to say that some of his plural marriages didn't include sex.

Smith promised heavenly exaltation for them and all their descendants, forever and ever, in exchange for their underage daughter.

And this is why I think the Joseph-Helen relationship was sexual. Helen herself documented that Joseph offered her father a higher position in the church and promised the whole family guaranteed salvation---if he could marry Helen.

That just doesn't sound like a chaste arrangement. It sounds like child sex trafficking. Her father basically sold her for an apostleship and a seat in the First Presidency.

I might still give Joseph the benefit of the doubt, except that the Kimball family followed Joseph around, settling practically next door to him in Nauvoo. So Joseph still had easy access to her, even though Helen continued to live with her parents.

I don't actually fault church members today for not leaving the faith as soon as they hear about Helen. I do fault them for denying it and tying themselves in mental pretzels trying to justify it.

[Chap]

I don't actually fault church members today for not leaving the faith as soon as they hear about Helen. I do fault them for denying it and tying themselves in mental pretzels trying to justify it.

I agree with you that this is the main point.

But then, that is where belief in a religion that makes assertions about events in the real world tends to get you.

[Atlanticmike]

This has to be the dumbest thread in the terrestrial forum and it amazes me so many exmormons actually think there's similarities between Joseph Smith and Donald Trump. For Christ sake!! Get a life!

[Dr. Shades]

This has to be the dumbest thread in the terrestrial forum and it amazes me so many exmormons actually think there's similarities between Joseph Smith and Donald Trump. For Christ sake!! Get a life!

Rather than opine about the thread, contribute to the thread. What do you believe are the differences between the two, and why?

[dantana]

I find these comparisons to be very contrived.

How would you compare Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Mother Theresa? Ronald Reagan to L. Ron Hubbard?

The comparisons get filled up and explained with the images we want. It is a cute conversation, but just an extension of one's preconceptions. In a forum like this, where it is expected to hate both Trump and Smith, this is just a pile on of that expectation.

Preconception defined: "an idea or opinion formed before enough information is available to form it correctly."

I believe there is enough information available on these two guys to make reasonably sound conclusions

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Trump also said if Ivanka weren't his daughter he'd want to have sex with her.

Didn't he just say he would want to date her?

(By which of course he probably meant ... OK!)

He’s said a lot of things.

She’s “voluptuous": http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2822826

He agrees she’s a “piece of ass": http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... f_ass.html

"Perhaps I'd be dating her": https://splinternews.com/heres-the-cree ... 1793849666

She has “the best body": https://www.salon.com/2018/03/23/donald ... a-history/

"If I weren't happily married...": https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/do ... aad9bbf2d7

"Is it wrong to be more sexually attracted to your own daughter than your wife?": https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ta ... s-daughter

"She's hot": https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/p ... women.html

They have “sex [in common],” whatever that even means: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-ne ... n-w446872/

Expressing shock that a gay Apprentice contestant wasn’t attracted to her: https://splinternews.com/Trump-shocked- ... 1793863310

Also of note: A teen pageant contestant complained to Ivanka in 1997 about Trump barging into the dressing rooms while the competitors were changing clothes. Ivanka’s response: “Yeah, he does that.”
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/ ... -does-that

And listen to the the 2016 testimony of Jane Doe, who claims Trump raped her when she was 13 at one of Jeffrey Epstein’s parties. Doe says that Trump communicated to the recruiter that he was interested in her because she was wearing a blonde wig and reminded him of his daughter.
https://youtu.be/YWnUzvlqpB0

- Doc

[Physics Guy]

A lot of differences, to be sure, but perhaps a few interesting similarities. People professing puritanical morals can readily excuse what a leader does, if the leader says what they want to hear. It makes one wonder if the Puritanism isn’t really just a chance to feel right about something, so that morality becomes superfluous if the need to feel superior is satisfied by other things.

How far is it true of Smith, though, that he identified a constituency of people who badly wanted to hear something, and told them what they wanted to hear? I never really thought of Smith’s prophethood as that kind of pandering. Was it?