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The question about the witnesses to the plates should have always been one not of their credibility or character but of their expertise. What is their witness good for? If we want to know whether they believed they saw something miraculous, well, sure, why not? If we want to know whether the plates truly were ancient and the product of an ancient Hebrew civilization in the New World, then who cares what they testified to? They were completely unqualified to weigh in on the authenticity of the plates as artifacts or historical evidence of anything.

I am curious: if any one of you saw some glowing being that claimed there were ancient Hebrews living in America, would you believe it?

I hope any one of us would maintain a high degree of skepticism on the matter.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:59 am

I am curious: if any one of you saw some glowing being that claimed there were ancient Hebrews living in America, would you believe it?

I hope any one of us would maintain a high degree of skepticism on the matter.

There are a few ways to approach this question. The most simple is that if any fellow apologist in the comments section claimed to have seen a glowing being who said ancient Hebrews were living in America, DCP wouldn't believe that person. He wouldn't have believed Joseph had they lived in his day either.

Gadianton wrote: There are a few ways to approach this question. The most simple is that if any fellow apologist in the comments section claimed to have seen a glowing being who said ancient Hebrews were living in America, DCP wouldn't believe that person. He wouldn't have believed Joseph had they lived in his day either.

And Joseph says he had a hard time believing it himself.

right, that's exactly what a con man would say.

Informant wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:26 am

Gadianton wrote: There are a few ways to approach this question. The most simple is that if any fellow apologist in the comments section claimed to have seen a glowing being who said ancient Hebrews were living in America, DCP wouldn't believe that person. He wouldn't have believed Joseph had they lived in his day either.

And Joseph says he had a hard time believing it himself.

> Joseph

I know, right? Like.

“Gosh darn it! Can you believe an angel had to threaten me with a SWORD to get me to SECRETLY “marry” all these girls and women?!? It’s CRAZY, and I wouldn’t have believed it myself, but what’re ya gonna do? NOT believe your own eyes?!?

And, get this. An ANGEL just, like, appeared to me in my bedroom and it didn’t wake ANYONE ELSE up! Like. Can you believe it? I sure don’t, but kinda I do. And this ANGEL told me a bunch of stuff, but it’s too crazy to believe. Just kidding, I TOTALLY believe it!

And did you know ANGELS God and Jesus appeared to me in he woods when I prayed about some things? CRAZY! I KNOW! I can HARDLY believe it myself! But I do! If it hadn’t ACTUALLY HAPPENED I woulda been mighty skeptical!”

> Joseph

-_-

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:22 am

There are a few ways to approach this question. The most simple is that if any fellow apologist in the comments section claimed to have seen a glowing being who said ancient Hebrews were living in America, DCP wouldn't believe that person. He wouldn't have believed Joseph had they lived in his day either.

If you won’t believe them today, why believe them in the 1820s?

Don’t forget that believing the witnesses for real will cost you 10% of your income. No wonder DCP feels justified asking for money—and spending it on all those trips. He’s not really bilking you if you get eternal salvation. Right?

Informant wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:09 am

Philo Sofee wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:38 am

Irrelevant ad hominem, the task is find someone who has refuted Anderson, I have two witnesses demonstrating Anderson's book on the witnesses is flawed, and wrong. That is what was asked for, that is exactly what I have given. STICK WITH THE ISSUE.

Tsk tsk, how dare you use red!

What specifically in those sources are you referring to?

Refuting your claim that no one has refuted Lloyd Anderson's book on the Book of Mormon Witnesses.

Oh, sorry. I meant successfully refuted.