CWK #31: Just about the sex? Mormon polygamy.

[Kishkumen]

I had heard that there was some question about the transmission, but the Joseph Smith Papers project has what appears to be an accurate copy of the revelation itself.

[Moksha]

Klaatu and Gort bringing new wife back to Kolob

[I Have Questions]

How close is the 132 that we have to the original revelation Hyrum took out to show to others (not just Emma)?

According to William Clayton, .

“On the morning of the 12th of July, 1843, Joseph and Hyrum Smith came into the off me in the upper story of the ‘brick store,’ on the bank of the Mississipppi River. They were talking on the subject of plural marriage. Hyrum said to Joseph, ‘If you will write the revelation on celestial marriage, I will take and read it to Emma, and I believe I can convince her of its truth, and you will hereafter have peace.’ Joseph smiled and remarked, ‘You do not know Emma as well as I do.’ Hyrum repeated his opinion and further remarked, ‘The doctrine is so plain, I can convince any reasonable man or woman of its truth, purity or heavenly origin,’ or words to their effect. Joseph then said, ‘Well, I will write the revelation and we will see.’ He then requested me to get paper and prepare to write. Hyrum very urgently requested Joseph to write the revelation by means of the Urim and Thummim3 but Joseph, in reply, said he did not need to, for the knew the revelation perfectly from beginning to end.

“Joseph and Hyrum then sat down and Joseph commenced to dictate the revelation on celestial marriage, and I wrote it, sentence by sentence, as he dictated. After the whole was written, Joseph asked me to read it through, slowly and carefully, which I did, and he pronounced it correct. He then remarked that there was much more that he could write, on the same subject, but what was written was sufficient for the present.

“Hyrum then took the revelation to read to Emma. Joseph remained with me in the office until Hyrum returned. When he came back, Joseph asked him how he had succeeded. Hyrum replied that he had never received a more severe talking to in his life, and anger.

“Joseph quietly remarked, ‘I told you you did not know Emma as well as I did.’ Joseph then put the revelation in his pocket, and they both left the office.

“The revelation was read to several of the authorities during the day. Towards evening Bishop Newel K. Whitney asked Joseph if he had any objections to his taking a copy of the revelation; Joseph replied that he had not, and handed it to him. It was carefully copied the following day by Joseph C. Kingsbury. Two or three days after the revelation was written Joseph related to me and several others that Emma had so teased, and urgently entreated him for the privilege of destroying it, that he became so weary of her teasing, and to get rid of her annoyance, he told her she might destroy it and she had done so, but he had consented to her wish in this matter to pacify her, realizing that he knew the revelation perfectly, and could rewrite it at any time if necessary.

“The copy made by Joseph C. Kingsbury is a true and correct copy of the original in every respect. The copy was carefully preserved by Bishop Whitney, and but few knew of its existence until the temporary location of the Camps of Israel at Winter quarters, on the Missouri River, in 1846.

“After the revelation on celestial marriage was written Joseph continued his instructions, privately, on the doctrine to myself and others and during the last year of his life we were scarcely ever together, alone, but he was talking on the subject, and explaining that doctrine and principles connected connected with it. He appeared to enjoy great liberty and freedom in his teachings, and also to find great relief in having a few to whom he could unbosom his feelings on that great and glorious subject.

“From him I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth, and that without obedience to that principle no man can ever attain to the ruiness of exaltation in celestial glory.

(Signed) WILLIAM CLAYTON. “Salt Lake City, February 16th, 1874.”

Smith, George D.. An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton (pp. 683-685). Signature Books. Kindle Edition.

Bold mine.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ource-note

In this record you can see just how much of a scheming manipulator and groomer Joseph Smith was. Leading Emma to believe she could destroy it when all along he knew there was a copy. The man had no shame, no guilt, and he treated Emma very very badly.

[Kishkumen]

I agree he treated Emma abominably.

[Kishkumen]

How close is the 132 that we have to the original revelation Hyrum took out to show to others (not just Emma)?

According to William Clayton, .

“On the morning of the 12th of July, 1843, Joseph and Hyrum Smith came into the off me in the upper story of the ‘brick store,’ on the bank of the Mississipppi River. They were talking on the subject of plural marriage. Hyrum said to Joseph, ‘If you will write the revelation on celestial marriage, I will take and read it to Emma, and I believe I can convince her of its truth, and you will hereafter have peace.’ Joseph smiled and remarked, ‘You do not know Emma as well as I do.’ Hyrum repeated his opinion and further remarked, ‘The doctrine is so plain, I can convince any reasonable man or woman of its truth, purity or heavenly origin,’ or words to their effect. Joseph then said, ‘Well, I will write the revelation and we will see.’ He then requested me to get paper and prepare to write. Hyrum very urgently requested Joseph to write the revelation by means of the Urim and Thummim3 but Joseph, in reply, said he did not need to, for the knew the revelation perfectly from beginning to end.

“Joseph and Hyrum then sat down and Joseph commenced to dictate the revelation on celestial marriage, and I wrote it, sentence by sentence, as he dictated. After the whole was written, Joseph asked me to read it through, slowly and carefully, which I did, and he pronounced it correct. He then remarked that there was much more that he could write, on the same subject, but what was written was sufficient for the present.

“Hyrum then took the revelation to read to Emma. Joseph remained with me in the office until Hyrum returned. When he came back, Joseph asked him how he had succeeded. Hyrum replied that he had never received a more severe talking to in his life, and anger.

“Joseph quietly remarked, ‘I told you you did not know Emma as well as I did.’ Joseph then put the revelation in his pocket, and they both left the office.

“The revelation was read to several of the authorities during the day. Towards evening Bishop Newel K. Whitney asked Joseph if he had any objections to his taking a copy of the revelation; Joseph replied that he had not, and handed it to him. It was carefully copied the following day by Joseph C. Kingsbury. Two or three days after the revelation was written Joseph related to me and several others that Emma had so teased, and urgently entreated him for the privilege of destroying it, that he became so weary of her teasing, and to get rid of her annoyance, he told her she might destroy it and she had done so, but he had consented to her wish in this matter to pacify her, realizing that he knew the revelation perfectly, and could rewrite it at any time if necessary.

“The copy made by Joseph C. Kingsbury is a true and correct copy of the original in every respect. The copy was carefully preserved by Bishop Whitney, and but few knew of its existence until the temporary location of the Camps of Israel at Winter quarters, on the Missouri River, in 1846.

“After the revelation on celestial marriage was written Joseph continued his instructions, privately, on the doctrine to myself and others and during the last year of his life we were scarcely ever together, alone, but he was talking on the subject, and explaining that doctrine and principles connected connected with it. He appeared to enjoy great liberty and freedom in his teachings, and also to find great relief in having a few to whom he could unbosom his feelings on that great and glorious subject.

“From him I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth, and that without obedience to that principle no man can ever attain to the ruiness of exaltation in celestial glory.

(Signed) WILLIAM CLAYTON. “Salt Lake City, February 16th, 1874.”

Smith, George D.. An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton (pp. 683-685). Signature Books. Kindle Edition.

Bold mine.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ource-note

Signed William Clayton in 1874. Chuckle.

[Dr. Shades]

Klaatu and Gort bringing new wife back to Kolob

Someone, please help me out: Was that funny?

[Dr. Shades]

Signed William Clayton in 1874. Chuckle.

Why does that evoke a chuckle?

[Markk]

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ource-note

In this record you can see just how much of a scheming manipulator and groomer Joseph Smith was. Leading Emma to believe she could destroy it when all along he knew there was a copy. The man had no shame, no guilt, and he treated Emma very very badly.

He treated just about everyone he knew badly. I think you are being generous with only two "very's."

[Kishkumen]

Signed William Clayton in 1874. Chuckle.

Why does that evoke a chuckle?

Because people generally believe or disbelieve the sources as they support or do not support their pet views. It makes me chuckle. Sort of like the situation with the transfiguration of Brigham Young. We always need to be aware of what motivates people to record an account in a particular form when they record it. At no point can we rely on the disinterested objectivity of our sources.

[Dr. Shades]

Why does that evoke a chuckle?

Because people generally believe or disbelieve the sources as they support or do not support their pet views. It makes me chuckle. Sort of like the situation with the transfiguration of Brigham Young. We always need to be aware of what motivates people to record an account in a particular form when they record it. At no point can we rely on the disinterested objectivity of our sources.

So, I guess this means you chuckled because William Clayton’s account doesn’t support your pet views?