What if Mormonism has its dualism backwards?

[Hound of Heaven]

In 1936, Joseph Fielding Smith quoted D&C 93:29, 33 in his book, The Progress of Man, and then explained that, “Some of our writers have endeavored to explain what an intelligence is.” Noting that because there had been so little revealed regarding the subject that their attempts had been futile, he said “We know, however, that there is something called intelligence which always existed. It is the REAL eternal part of man, which was not created or made. This intelligence combined with the spirit constitutes a spiritual identity or INDIVIDUAL" (11; see also Answers to Gospel Questions 4:127).

[Morley]

This is a screenshot of page 127 from the book "Gospel through the Ages" by Milton R. Hunter, published in 1902. It discusses the perspective of Mormons on a pre-existence to the pre-existence.

Mr Hunter was obviously a genus, as he had to have written that book in utero.

[Physics Guy]

Perhaps it was a spirit book in the pre-existence.

Perhaps books also have eternal progression. If they avoid coffee stains, they can be exalted into screenplays and have many sequels.

[Fence Sitter]

This is a screenshot of page 127 from the book "Gospel through the Ages" by Milton R. Hunter, published in 1902. It discusses the perspective of Mormons on a pre-existence to the pre-existence.

Mr Hunter was obviously a genus, as he had to have written that book in utero.

Has anyone checked it for EMoD?

[MG 2.0]

So, could that then mean that after this existence we could need to go through more existences per se to find completeness.

Anything is possible in Mormonism. So yes!

I know you're saying this with a touch of hyperbole but nonetheless there may be a kernel of truth in that statement.

This is an interesting thread. Something new under the sun! I stand corrected on an earlier statement I made on another thread.

We refer to "intelligences" in describing our premortal state of existence. But I think there is a qualitative difference between intelligences and intelligence (singular vs. plural). Scientific theory says that everything may be reduced to information.

It=Bit.

It's a theory in motion, but nonetheless there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything.

It's interesting that LDS theology allows for this. That is, if information=intelligence.

Just some food for thought.

I don't have the technical expertise to really discuss this on a philosophical or scientific level to any significant degree, so I'll step back and learn from others. But I do find it interesting that there might be parallels between what we're describing or trying to talk about as we describe consciousness...intelligence...souls...and information theory.

https://youtu.be/E6I6J7nIMEg

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

Anything is possible in Mormonism. So yes!

I know you're saying this with a touch of hyperbole but nonetheless there may be a kernel of truth in that statement.

This is an interesting thread. Something new under the sun! I stand corrected on an earlier statement I made on another thread.

We refer to "intelligences" in describing our premortal state of existence. But I think there is a qualitative difference between intelligences and intelligence (singular vs. plural). Scientific theory says that everything may be reduced to information.

It=Bit.

It's a theory in motion, but nonetheless there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything.

It's interesting that LDS theology allows for this. That is, if information=intelligence.

Just some food for thought.

I don't have the technical expertise to really discuss this on a philosophical or scientific level to any significant degree, so I'll step back and learn from others. But I do find it interesting that there might be parallels between what we're describing or trying to talk about as we describe consciousness...intelligence...souls...and information theory.

https://youtu.be/E6I6J7nIMEg

Regards,
MG

This could be a reasonable way to reconcile Joseph Smith’s materialist tendencies with a more traditional ethereal approach to souls. Information as spirit, or spirit as information.

Definitely interesting to consider within the Mormon theological context.

[Morley]

It's a theory in motion, but nonetheless there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything.

Who are these people who think Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything? I wasn't aware that anyone had proposed this.

[MG 2.0]

It's a theory in motion, but nonetheless there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything.

Who are these people who think Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything? I wasn't aware that anyone had proposed this.

The idea of information theory as a "Theory of Everything" has gained traction in certain circles, particularly among those exploring its potential to unify disparate fields such as physics, consciousness studies, and even metaphysics. Here are the key groups and perspectives driving this notion:

1. Proponents of Integrated Information Theory (IIT)
Giulio Tononi's IIT: This theory posits that consciousness arises from the integration of information within a system. Some advocates see IIT as a bridge between neuroscience and fundamental physics, claiming it could help explain not only consciousness but also broader aspects of reality.

Supporters like Christof Koch: Koch has called IIT a promising framework for understanding consciousness, though it remains controversial due to criticisms of its testability and philosophical implications.

2. Physicists Exploring Information as Fundamental
"It from Bit" Hypothesis: Pioneered by John Archibald Wheeler, this idea suggests that information is the fundamental building block of the universe. Some physicists argue that information could unify quantum mechanics and general relativity, replacing energy or matter as the primary substrate of reality.

Quantum Consciousness Theorists: Scholars like David Chalmers and others have explored how theories like IIT might provide insights into quantum mechanics by treating consciousness as a factor in wave-function collapse.

3. Legacy of Claude Shannon's Information Theory
Shannon's work laid the foundation for modern digital communication and computation. His ideas have inspired broader philosophical interpretations, with some suggesting that information could serve as a universal principle akin to energy or mass.

Books like The Information by James Gleick have popularized this view, leading to speculative discussions about assigning fundamental status to information.

4. Critics and Skeptics
Many scientists and philosophers criticize these ideas as speculative or pseudoscientific. For example, IIT has been labeled pseudoscience by some due to its lack of empirical testability.

Others argue that extending Shannon's framework beyond its original scope risks conflating mathematical abstraction with physical reality.

In summary, those advocating for information theory as a "Theory of Everything" often come from interdisciplinary backgrounds—neuroscience (via IIT), theoretical physics ("it from bit"), and digital communication (Shannon's legacy). While intriguing, these ideas remain highly speculative and controversial.

Perplexity A.I.

Regards,
MG

[Morley]

Who are these people who think Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything? I wasn't aware that anyone had proposed this.

The idea of information theory as a "Theory of Everything" has gained traction in certain circles, particularly among those exploring its potential to unify disparate fields such as physics, consciousness studies, and even metaphysics. Here are the key groups and perspectives driving this notion:

1. Proponents of Integrated Information Theory (IIT)
Giulio Tononi's IIT: This theory posits that consciousness arises from the integration of information within a system. Some advocates see IIT as a bridge between neuroscience and fundamental physics, claiming it could help explain not only consciousness but also broader aspects of reality.

Supporters like Christof Koch: Koch has called IIT a promising framework for understanding consciousness, though it remains controversial due to criticisms of its testability and philosophical implications.

2. Physicists Exploring Information as Fundamental
"It from Bit" Hypothesis: Pioneered by John Archibald Wheeler, this idea suggests that information is the fundamental building block of the universe. Some physicists argue that information could unify quantum mechanics and general relativity, replacing energy or matter as the primary substrate of reality.

Quantum Consciousness Theorists: Scholars like David Chalmers and others have explored how theories like IIT might provide insights into quantum mechanics by treating consciousness as a factor in wave-function collapse.

3. Legacy of Claude Shannon's Information Theory
Shannon's work laid the foundation for modern digital communication and computation. His ideas have inspired broader philosophical interpretations, with some suggesting that information could serve as a universal principle akin to energy or mass.

Books like The Information by James Gleick have popularized this view, leading to speculative discussions about assigning fundamental status to information.

4. Critics and Skeptics
Many scientists and philosophers criticize these ideas as speculative or pseudoscientific. For example, IIT has been labeled pseudoscience by some due to its lack of empirical testability.

Others argue that extending Shannon's framework beyond its original scope risks conflating mathematical abstraction with physical reality.

In summary, those advocating for information theory as a "Theory of Everything" often come from interdisciplinary backgrounds—neuroscience (via IIT), theoretical physics ("it from bit"), and digital communication (Shannon's legacy). While intriguing, these ideas remain highly speculative and controversial.

Perplexity A.I.

Regards,
MG

Thank you MG, for a mass of words that were not yours, and that may not have even been read by you.

In the jumble that your A.I. provided (unless I missed something), it appears that no one is willing attach their names to the idea that Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything. So why did you make a claim that “there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything”?

What am I missing?

[MG 2.0]

Who are these people who think Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything? I wasn't aware that anyone had proposed this.

Regards,
MG

Thank you MG, for a mass of words that were not yours, and that may not have even been read by you.

In the jumble that your A.I. provided (unless I missed something), it appears that no one is willing attach their names to the idea that Information Theory is a new Theory of Everything. So why did you make a claim that “there are those that support information theory as being the theory of everything”?

What am I missing?

Paul Davies, director of BEYOND: The Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science at Arizona State University, frames the question: "Historically, matter has been at the bottom of the explanatory chain, and information has been a sort of secondary derivative of it," Davies said. Now, he added, "there's increasing interest among at least a small group of physicists to turn this upside down and say, maybe at rock bottom, the universe is about information and information processing, and it's matter that emerges as a secondary concept.
https://www.space.com/29477-did-informa ... perplexity

It might be well to have PhysicsGuy check in on this. He would be the most well informed of anyone here I would think.

I'm simply positing that it is interesting that there may be possible correlates between information theory and Mormon teachings in regards to intelligence(s) and spirit.

Regards
MG