Study shows LDS Church participation increases risk to children from abusers

[MG 2.0]

I think that agency does need to be part of the conversation, yes. The some total of ALL the conversation? No.

Where do you think agency enters in on this conversation on this thread and others?

Regards,
MG

I think it enters as a poor justification for the failings of churches around the globe.

That's a non answer. In a sense, it's rather meaningless. Why is agency a "poor justification for the failings of churches around the globe"? You didn't give any specific reasons to back up your assertion.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

MG 2.0, God of the Old Testament at least saved Isaac from being slain by father Abraham. How come Mormon God is so indifferent to the sexual molestation of children at the hands of his anointed Mormon bishops? If they are one and the same god, seems God doesn't give much care about children today being sexually molested.

As to agency, did God of the Old Testament prevent Abraham's agency???

You're in a corner and lashing out like an animal at this point.

[MG 2.0]

I didn't say "simply". And no, I'm not a crap grandparent. And no, I am not a soulless jerk.

And yes, you are a judgmental SOB.

Regards,
MG

Where's that other cheek, MG 2.0?

Hasn't gone anywhere. You think I'm a patsy?

If you do, you're wrong. If I didn't stick up for what is true when a falsehood is presented...that would be wrong. Just wrong. There is a time and a place for turning the other cheek. And there is a time and a place to point out what is not right and true.

That's what I did. Clearly.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

You can be dead sure that I would do everything in my power to see that the Bishop was no longer a Bishop and was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Apparently you are wrong in your assessment.

Regards,
MG

WHAT??? You would speak ill of the Mormon Lord's anointed bishop? For shame, MG 2.0, for shame.

This is a silly response, sock puppet. No where to go with that. Rather than giving a impulsive 'knee jerk' and rather dumb response, say something thoughtful/new.

Don't waste my time.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

WHAT??? You would speak ill of the Mormon Lord's anointed bishop? For shame, MG 2.0, for shame.

This is a silly response, sock puppet. No where to go with that. Rather than giving a impulsive 'knee jerk' and rather dumb response, say something thoughtful/new.

Don't waste my time.

Regards,
MG

You definitely have "No where to go with that." Bingo, for once you've made an accurate statement. Maybe you and your child-molesting bishop buddies can go have some ice cream together at the corner malt shop.

[Doctor Steuss]

Is Mormon God insane for letting children be molested by Mormon Bishops? Or is Mormon God too impotent to do anything about it?

This is one of the pretzels of agency and the problem of evil.

It's ok for the agency of the victim to be violated in order for the agency of the monster to be preserved. Agency priority is always defaulted to the perpetrator of evil over the agency of the innocent.


*SA Trigger Warning*


When the infamous Arizona Bishop was told by the father that he was repeatedly raping his child, and had tried to rape his infant, at no point did the Bishop try to preserve the child's or baby's agency. At no point did he seek medical care and counseling for the child and baby. At no point did he seek for them to be protected from their father. No. It was all about preserving the agency of the monster, to hopefully make the choice to stop raping his child. His agency to continue raping had to be preserved above preserving the agency of others to choose to not be raped.

It's a vile worldview.

[MG 2.0]

This is a silly response, sock puppet. No where to go with that. Rather than giving a impulsive 'knee jerk' and rather dumb response, say something thoughtful/new.

Don't waste my time.

Regards,
MG

You definitely have "No where to go with that." Bingo, for once you've made an accurate statement. Maybe you and your child-molesting bishop buddies can go have some ice cream together at the corner malt shop.

I've made many observations/comments on this topic in the past. Your conversation style doesn't lend itself to further conversation with you on this topic. Unless you can come at it from a new angle I haven't seen/heard of?

I don't expect that to be the case.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Humans do stupid things. We have to work ourselves around and through that and do what we can to inhibit stupid behavior/actions within the confines/parameters of that which is possible.

No sane person wants to see a child molested. But the fact of the matter is, it's going to happen. We don't live in a Pollyannish world. Agency of others is at the core. We make laws, we set expectations, but we will still have people doing stupid and even evil things.

It's really not rocket science. I hope this helps you better understand where I am coming from.

Non believers and come critics seemingly think that God could set up a world in which stupid behavior and actions would never occur. That is not the track record of humanity. That is not the track record of religions. And the LDS church struggles with intermittent/periodic trespasses of expectations of its leaders. Confidentiality and security/safety are sometimes at odds against each other. If I understand things correctly, within the LDS Church parents now have the opportunity to request that they sit in on youth interviews. If so, I think this is a good move.

The problem is, if the parent is the abuser...then what? You don't want the parent in the room.

Problems to the left, and problems to the right. No easy answers.

Regards,
MG

Is Mormon God insane for letting children be molested by Mormon Bishops? Or is Mormon God too impotent to do anything about it?

Same answer as my previous post.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

Is Mormon God insane for letting children be molested by Mormon Bishops? Or is Mormon God too impotent to do anything about it?

Same answer as my previous post.

Regards,
MG

So your answer is Mormon God is both insane for letting children be molested by Mormon Bishops, and Mormon God is too impotent to do anything about it anyway. Bravo, good and faithful servant, bravo!

[MG 2.0]

Is Mormon God insane for letting children be molested by Mormon Bishops? Or is Mormon God too impotent to do anything about it?

This is one of the pretzels of agency and the problem of evil.

It's ok for the agency of the victim to be violated in order for the agency of the monster to be preserved. Agency priority is always defaulted to the perpetrator of evil over the agency of the innocent.


*SA Trigger Warning*


When the infamous Arizona Bishop was told by the father that he was repeatedly raping his child, and had tried to rape his infant, at no point did the Bishop try to preserve the child's or baby's agency. At no point did he seek medical care and counseling for the child and baby. At no point did he seek for them to be protected from their father. No. It was all about preserving the agency of the monster, to hopefully make the choice to stop raping his child. His agency to continue raping had to be preserved above preserving the agency of others to choose to not be raped.

It's a vile worldview.

Agency does result in vile and monstrous behaviors. It always has and always will...until we have a perfect world where everyone does what is right all of the time without any exception.

I will make a comment on one thing you said. You postulated that "Agency priority is always defaulted to the perpetrator of evil over the agency of the innocent".

Not so. Agency just IS. There is no default one way or the other towards good or evil...unless one CHOOSES. I think your statement as faulty on its face and at its core. I would be interested in having you explain in greater detail why you think your default position that you have staked out IS the default.

Regards,
MG