John Dehlin Stake President update 8/23/14

[_Rosebud]

Rosebud,

When JD, went through the whole "faith reconstruction" thing, it threw a lot of people for a loop. This is when he announced that the MormonStories Facebook group would be for podcast related discussion, and that another Facebook group (presumably mormonhub) would be for more general discussion, or something like that. This is all from memory of the announcements to the Facebook groups, so forgive me if I am getting the details mixed up. Without going into detail, that was pretty disruptive for a lot of people.

Anyway, you said this about the whole Facebook group kerfuffle:
Oh.... here's one really fun drama (of the MANY): That time he moved everybody from the MS podcast group into the new Facebook group that became The Mormon Hub..... ? It was because somebody finally convinced him that he couldn't exclude me from everything forever. Instead of adding me to the main group I had admin'd from 400 people up (and from which I had been banned from for several months) he moved EVERYBODY to a new group. EVERYBODY. Then, through a series of events, Sunstone became the owner of the new group. Sunstone was too afraid he might retaliate against them if they let me have anything to do with administrating the new group.


So, that was actually all about you?

Yup. I can prove many things with emails. But, right now I'm going to take a "wait and see" approach. Besides, most of this drama is just drama. While I am concerned about real harm, I'm very tired of drama.

I'm also excited about some of the new Mormon projects I'm seeing on the horizon. The good news is that there really are some great leaders beginning to step forward and that over time the community is becoming more and more stable; I see stability spreading. I'd like to look forward instead of backwards whenever possible.

That doesn't mean, however, forgetting past actions when there is still harm being done. I think that as a community, we have a problem when we put too much confidence in any one leader. We need many different people and many different projects representing progressive Mormonism and all of those projects need stable funding.

[_Bazooka]

Someone (sorry I'm not keeping track or fiddling with fixing the quotes) said:

"Obviously this thread got out of control between the three or four posters on this thread who know the history. It's sad it went on as many pages as it did. I'm sure that after everyone cools off, mormonstories would apologize for what he said above. I'd be the first to admit I know him very little, but he doesn't seem the type of guy to say something so hurtful when he's in control of his temper (In other words, we all say things in the 'heat of battle' that we later very much regret)."

No worries. I'm used to it now. I am not hurt anymore. Sometimes it takes a person a while to figure life out, but I feel very good about where I am right now. My skin fits, if that makes sense.

Mormonstories does not need to apologize and if you knew the history, you would know that any apology he can give on a message board at this point would be useless and would even be in poor taste. He has had hundreds of opportunities to improve his poor behavior and provide restitution. He has not taken those opportunities.

The history here is much larger than a message board fight and at this point, it includes several very powerful people, an exceptionally wealthy church, and thousands of donors and individuals who have been taken advantage of without their knowledge.

Sounds like a trailer for the next series of 24.

[_Rosebud]

The history here is much larger than a message board fight and at this point, it includes several very powerful people, an exceptionally wealthy church, and thousands of donors and individuals who have been taken advantage of without their knowledge.

Sounds like a trailer for the next series of 24.

Seriously. Someday somebody might actually take this on, who knows. It could be the best non-fiction drama thriller documentary ever. By the end people would be laughing, crying, rolling their eyes and thinking deeply. Then they'd probably want to shrug it off with a beer.

[_Bazooka]

The history here is much larger than a message board fight and at this point, it includes several very powerful people, an exceptionally wealthy church, and thousands of donors and individuals who have been taken advantage of without their knowledge.

Sounds like a trailer for the next series of 24.

Seriously. Someday somebody might actually take this on, who knows. It could be the best non-fiction drama thriller documentary ever. By the end people would be laughing, crying, rolling their eyes and thinking deeply. Then they'd probably want to shrug it off with a beer.

Calling Bob Bobberson.....

[_Rosebud]

Calling Bob Bobberson.....

There's a lot of junk in this trunk.......

[_hank rearden]

It's been pretty disappointing to read the misogyny throughout this. Rosebud comes on a little strong and she's Glenn Close? Would anyone imagine shaming a male poster that way? Didn't think so.

And MoSto, you're too attuned as a psych professional not to know the troublesome history around language like "hysteria" and "histrionics". That cannot be ignorance, so I have to wonder if it's deliberate dogwhistling to an atavistic troglodyte base among your supporters.

Check the calendar gents. Male privilege is every bit as unseemly as white privilege. Women are not "other".

If this cracker-ass lower-middle-class punk kid from 70s Mormon Idaho can figure this crap out, I have little patience for younger, better-connected males either missing the point or deliberately marginalizing a woman. No excuses.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

It's been pretty disappointing to read the misogyny throughout this. Rosebud comes on a little strong and she's Glenn Close? Would anyone imagine shaming a male poster that way? Didn't think so.

And MoSto, you're too attuned as a psych professional not to know the troublesome history around language like "hysteria" and "histrionics". That cannot be ignorance, so I have to wonder if it's deliberate dogwhistling to an atavistic troglodyte base among your supporters.

Check the calendar gents. Male privilege is every bit as unseemly as white privilege. Women are not "other".

If this cracker-ass lower-middle-class punk kid from 70s Mormon Idaho can figure this crap out, I have little patience for younger, better-connected males either missing the point or deliberately marginalizing a woman. No excuses.

I raise my wine glass in your direction, sir.

[_Symmachus]

It's been pretty disappointing to read the misogyny throughout this. Rosebud comes on a little strong and she's Glenn Close? Would anyone imagine shaming a male poster that way? Didn't think so.

And MoSto, you're too attuned as a psych professional not to know the troublesome history around language like "hysteria" and "histrionics". That cannot be ignorance, so I have to wonder if it's deliberate dogwhistling to an atavistic troglodyte base among your supporters.

Check the calendar gents. Male privilege is every bit as unseemly as white privilege. Women are not "other".

If this cracker-ass lower-middle-class punk kid from 70s Mormon Idaho can figure this crap out, I have little patience for younger, better-connected males either missing the point or deliberately marginalizing a woman. No excuses.

As you were the first, so let me be the second to congratulate you on your enlightened views.

But I wonder what term you would use to describe what looks suspiciously like a threat of blackmail (or "whitemale", if you prefer):

...You won't look good for moving forward with this plan and I don't think it's going to help you keep your psychology license. You'll go from looking like a perpetrator to looking like an (insert whatever profanity you prefer here) perpetrator.

Don't go asking mods for permission to finish what you've already attempted to begin. This is bigger than a message board.

And let's not get as ugly as starting to substantiate the thus far unsubstantiated. Think. For now the worst of the information is only going into a document that will be locked away from the public...

John knows I have evidence. John knows I am good at written debates. John knows that I am better at message board debates than he is. John knows that I could destroy his life....

I've already made clear what I would like to say for now, but I will make make the statement again and add a bit more information:

1) I am creating a brief document.
2) I have no intention of making that document public right now.
3) John will have more information about the document by early October. That information will not come to him through public channels or email.

Or perhaps you think a threat to someone's career (or more, depending on how you interpret "destroy[ing] his life") merely a "little strong" and thus insignificant in the face of admittedly sexist rhetoric on anonymous message board?

[_RockSlider]

Narcissists often use the following ...

And here comes Sister Mary Lisa out of the blue, white rattlesnakes ... JD's narcissism having perfectly staged this whole thread ...

I did not follow what has happened on NOM over the last few months, but have followed it here to a larger extent, in reference to Mayan stalking JD's name appearing in the boards various threads and tirelessly spamming those threads with attacks against JD.

The second this OP was dropped, Mayan's responses were predictable by anyone who has followed this for any length of time (JD bashing time ... again) The real surprise was the Glen Close appearance of Rosebud making strong accusations and issuing threats against JD.

So we have several recent months of a few individuals internet stalking and bashing JD via anyone/everyone who mentions/has some involvement in JD (i.e. peggy stack being bashed for and in behalf of jd) and low and behold ... JD shows up and calls BS.

Now he is the nasty, white rattlesnake narcissistic master planner who's trap has now been sprung.

The actions of three or four individuals so incredibly hurt by something JD has done to them ... (what 2 years back now or more) just get stranger and stranger ...

[_Rosebud]

It's been pretty disappointing to read the misogyny throughout this. Rosebud comes on a little strong and she's Glenn Close? Would anyone imagine shaming a male poster that way? Didn't think so.

And MoSto, you're too attuned as a psych professional not to know the troublesome history around language like "hysteria" and "histrionics". That cannot be ignorance, so I have to wonder if it's deliberate dogwhistling to an atavistic troglodyte base among your supporters.

Check the calendar gents. Male privilege is every bit as unseemly as white privilege. Women are not "other".

If this cracker-ass lower-middle-class punk kid from 70s Mormon Idaho can figure this crap out, I have little patience for younger, better-connected males either missing the point or deliberately marginalizing a woman. No excuses.

I missed the Glenn Close comment. I'll take it as a compliment. Thank you to whomever.

It's common for people to be uncomfortable when a woman speaks powerfully, especially to a powerful man. People feel much more comfortable when a man speaks powerfully, even if he is speaking to someone with less power and is using shame and intimidation tactics. It's pretty fascinating the way the Mormon authorities and the Mormon PR department use that kind of language against women all the time and that women hardly notice it happening.... to the extent that they'll defend the church and the men (or Jessica Moody in the men's stead) who are speaking to them that way. I used to defend mormonstories. I'm so thankful for the many experiences I've had that have taught me how to take my own power back from him and other men who attempt to control and intimidate me. I used the word "abusive" in reference to his language intentionally. He is an abusive man. These things need to be said because there are many other abusive men hurting our women. I want it to stop and I will not protect mormonstories ever again. At this point it would be immoral to protect him. He's had too many chances.

When I first started posting about Mormonism on message boards, I chose a board that was mostly male. It was even a sports board. I took them on as the resident feminist. They hated it and I had the time of my life. They seriously could not figure me out. I ran a rebellion and turned the board politics upside down. It was my first experience learning to express myself powerfully to men without the fear of them being able to dominate me with their size.

I learned a lot there, but not enough to protect me from mormonstories and the double binds he intentionally put me in to maintain power over me. It has felt very good to take him on and demonstrate to him that he can't treat me that way anymore. It's over and the reality is that at this point, his actions against me are so despicable that I'm the one who has power over him. I can see that this switch makes many people uncomfortable when they see it in writing.... . it shouldn't. As a people, we need to see more of this. Women gaining their voices and learning how to protect themselves and not be deceived by dangerous men will make our families stronger and better.

This practical side of feminism is what is beautiful because it's what Mormons, as a people, need. It'll be cool when women get the priesthood and all, but the priesthood ins't really the point.