healing/recovery through venting?

[_Yoda]

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Why are you categorizing Truth Dancer and myself as "unwitting enablers"? First of all, I believe that Truth Dancer has a professional background in counseling, so her opinion should be valued on that basis. She and I both have stated that venting is simply a place to start....to identify the problem. TD can correct me if I'm misprepresenting her, but I don't think that either one of us has said that venting is the "end-all, be-all" solution to anything. It's simply a place to start....to identify the problem.

Now that you have given us your convoluted drumroll...please...by all means, do not leave us in suspense. Tell us what your magnificent solution is.

Wade...what frustrates me about your posts is that you say that you want to help people, but then you throw in these little threats and jabs, such as your last comment on this post:

You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

What exactly are you getting at here? Are you threatening to somehow expose people's annonymity on these sites? What would that solve? How are these people hurting you, or the public at large?

[_wenglund]

I asked earlier:

But, the issue really goes beyond that, doesn't it? It is not just a matter of acknowledging that people see things differently. Rather, it is a matter of determining, in everyone's best interest, what is valid and appropriate or not, and what works and what doesn't. From my perspective, the folks at RFM are, through cognitive distortions, unnecessarily creating their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and the manner in which they are mis-directing their venting and grieving adds to, and unnecessarily prolongs, the cyle of pain and suffering and anger and loss for themselves as well as for others. What I am proposing is a proven method for RFMers and others like them to stop their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and keep them from causing undue pain and suffering and anger and loss to others. Who wouldn't want that?

Well, it appears that there are not a few on this board who apparently don't want that.

Why do you suppose that is?

Do you suppose it is because they don't trust me?

Well...it is likely that they will offer that as an excuse (if they haven't already--i.e. Runtu). But, even were I to point them to authoritative resources, it is unlikely that they would take me up on it. So, in truth, it isn't about trust.

Rather, for some (if not most) I suspect it may have much more to do with near paranoia of thinking themselves WRONG again. A lot of negative emotion and energy has been expended, and it would be disheartening to see it all turn out for not--or worse yet, to find that it was seriously misdirected. They would just as soon continue swirling themselves and others deeper into negativity and socio-emotional debt and supposedly save face, than effectively heal themselves and stop the cycle of hurt and anger and loss. In other words, they will continue driving around with an emotional flat tire and risking significant damage to their own socio-psychological vehicle as well as other vehicles, because their egos won't let them believe the constant thumping isn't, as they suppose, a Mormon rock in their tread. It is the epitomy of dysfunction.

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

For me it is about trust. I've known you a long time, Wade, and I have good reason not to trust you. Trust has to be earned, and you haven't earned it.

You asked me before if I was willing to explore the rationality of my beliefs and feelings. I said I am. You have now asked a second time. Heal me from the dysfunction, Wade. Please.

Then, start directly answering my questions rather than evading them with some feigned "cruelty" excuse.

As for the idea that it would be painful to be proven wrong, I could not disagree more. There's simply no downside for me in finding out that the church is true (well, other than I'd have to start paying tithing again). [/quote]

You misunderstand me yet again. I am not talking about you being WRONG about the verity of the Church. It is not your disbelief in the Church that I have a problem with. It is your months of "venting" and "grieving" that is at issue. In other words, it is not that you disbelieve, but how you have reacted to that disbelief. Understood?

The tension in my marriage would all but disappear. My 14 year old would stop saying that her "real dad" is dead. I would love to be proven wrong, Wade. I really would.

I am not in a position to do much about your disbelief, but I think there is a way to effectively diminish, if not evaporate the tension in your marriage, and become your daughter's "real dad" once again.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

You know what's funny? I'm not wallowing in negativity and bigotry. I seem to have reached a state in my family and with my ward where we are at peace with each other. No, my wife doesn't like my withdrawal from activity, but it just doesn't come up all that much anymore. Maybe we're too focused on living our lives.

My participation on RfM has dropped dramatically, and I only came over here because I was invited. The only problems I have with negativity come when a relative stranger says I'm dysfunctional and a cry-baby, etc. Yeah, that kind of p*sses me off, but in general, I'm a pretty happy guy.

[_wenglund]

This is bull, Wade, since part of the problem is the Church itself, and its rigidity. The experts juliann cites so often are in full agreement on this. Until you acknowledge this, I hardly see how you can be "trusted."

Sorry, Scratch. I care too much about you to continue arguing with you counterproductively. You either get it, or you don't. If you want to be helped with your dysfunction, then I will be pleased to try. If you want to remain in denial about it, well that is your choice. To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Sam Harris]

No Wade.

I think we all realize that the venting and grief makes sense to you. The reason for the venting and grief is what is at issue, in my opinion. ~dancer~

....knowing what I do now about cognitive behavioral therapy

Wade, no one gives a damn how many self-help books you've read, you are NOT an authority here!

[_wenglund]

You know what's funny? I'm not wallowing in negativity and bigotry. I seem to have reached a state in my family and with my ward where we are at peace with each other. No, my wife doesn't like my withdrawal from activity, but it just doesn't come up all that much anymore. Maybe we're too focused on living our lives.

My participation on RfM has dropped dramatically, and I only came over here because I was invited. The only problems I have with negativity come when a relative stranger says I'm dysfunctional and a cry-baby, etc. Yeah, that kind of p*sses me off, but in general, I'm a pretty happy guy.

What about the tension in your marriage and the "real dad" thing? What about the months of venting and grieving at RFM?

Why did you suddenly change your mind once I called your hand?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

Then, start directly answering my questions rather than evading them with some feigned "cruelty" excuse.

If you really want to help me, it's probably best not to keep insisting that my genuine reaction was "feigned" and an "excuse" designed to evade your questions. That's kind of counterproductive to gaining trust, Wade.

You misunderstand me yet again. I am not talking about you being WRONG about the verity of the Church. It is not your disbelief in the Church that I have a problem with. It is your months of "venting" and "grieving" that is at issue. In other words, it is not that you disbelieve, but how you have reacted to that disbelief. Understood?

Why are we talking about past events, Wade? So, maybe I handled things badly during the months of grieving; you may well be right. To paraphrase President Hinckley: "It's in the past. It's behind me." I'm not grieving, and I'm not venting. If you think it's productive to rehash what I did last year, by all means, go for it.

I am not in a position to do much about your disbelief, but I think there is a way to effectively diminish, if not evaporate the tension in your marriage, and become your daughter's "real dad" once again.

Things have improved vastly on both accounts, thank you.

So what questions did you have in mind to help me heal?

[_Runtu]

You know what's funny? I'm not wallowing in negativity and bigotry. I seem to have reached a state in my family and with my ward where we are at peace with each other. No, my wife doesn't like my withdrawal from activity, but it just doesn't come up all that much anymore. Maybe we're too focused on living our lives.

My participation on RfM has dropped dramatically, and I only came over here because I was invited. The only problems I have with negativity come when a relative stranger says I'm dysfunctional and a cry-baby, etc. Yeah, that kind of p*sses me off, but in general, I'm a pretty happy guy.

What about the tension in your marriage and the "real dad" thing? What about the months of venting and grieving at RFM?

Why did you suddenly change your mind once I called your hand?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not grieving, Wade. The "months of venting and grieving" were in 2005. There indeed is still tension in my marriage, but it is better. And things are better with my daughter. I haven't changed my mind, Wade. Maybe I didn't explain things as clearly as I could have. Or maybe you're just, you know, putting words in my mouth or something. ;-)

[_Sam Harris]

One thing that I've learned about pompous TBMs like Wade is that the feeling of being superior to others is a type of psychological masturbation for them. Their faith teaches them that they're better than everyone else for illogical reasons, so they must take that and run with it.

I'm through with my years of therapy (and not afraid to admit I went through it, I wanted to live, to heal), and glad to say that for the first time in my life, I know joy. People like Wade would only see someone who isn't LDS (and who doesn't wanna be) and assume I'm mental. Everyone else sees someone on the rise.

[_wenglund]

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Why are you categorizing Truth Dancer and myself as "unwitting enablers"? First of all, I believe that Truth Dancer has a professional background in counseling, so her opinion should be valued on that basis. She and I both have stated that venting is simply a place to start....to identify the problem. TD can correct me if I'm misprepresenting her, but I don't think that either one of us has said that venting is the "end-all, be-all" solution to anything. It's simply a place to start....to identify the problem.

You each have unwittingly condoned the kind of dysfunctional "venting" that occurs at RFM.

Now that you have given us your convoluted drumroll...please...by all means, do not leave us in suspense. Tell us what your magnificent solution is.

In a word: "love"

Wade...what frustrates me about your posts is that you say that you want to help people, but then you throw in these little threats and jabs, such as your last comment on this post:

You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

What exactly are you getting at here? Are you threatening to somehow expose people's annonymity on these sites? What would that solve? How are these people hurting you, or the public at large?

What I am doing here is offering a choice: either take the medicine and get better, or be quarantined and warned against.

And, no, I am not going to do the internet equivalent of pulling the pointy-headed white masks off the KKK. I am not going to violate their anonymity. My intent is to first help people out of their religious bigotry, and if unsuccessful, simply notify the world of their bigotry, and discredit the bigotry.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-