Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_moksha]

... infidelity (real or fantasized)...

I think a wise apologist once said, "Sometimes a powdered donut hole is just a donut hole". Any alleged case of transference and countertransference is suspect when the donut in question is absent.

[_Rosebud]

Especially during those beginning threads, posters made all kinds of false assumptions about what I was saying and I didn't take time to correct false assumptions because I was busy doing my own thing. What I say is often different than how it is interpreted.

Right, that is what I'm saying and much if it was your own fault, which is why I'm pointing out the differences between your last couple of posts where you have been more clear, succinct etc. Example...stating plainly that the affair was "not sexual and was consensual." Those are the kind of details you left out in some of those earlier threads where you talk about rape etc, and even in the first half of this one. Those are kind of important details

Hmmm.... in the first threads I was in the process of proving to JD that I wasn't going to be intimidated into silence. I was communicating with him, not you. If you recall correctly, he responded then. A little while later, I was in the process of withdrawing the charge for the reasons stated in this thread above. We were also communicating through attorneys at that time. I wasn't at liberty to present a solid argument for you. My posts weren't about you or this message board. They were about something else. The message board was the medium. I kept repeating that, but people just kept chiming in with popcorn and intellectualizing and whatever else they had to say which was to be expected because this is, in fact, a message board. I was cool with that, but I wasn't stopping to explain more than I needed to because my objective wasn't to communicate with you clearly.

You've spent two years saying you have a lawyer and documents etc insinuating that you could blow the lid on JD and Open Stories Foundation, and now you admit JD has done nothing that would land him in jail. Kind of important part of the conversation.

What does having attorneys involved have to do with jail? I don't know why I ever would have said there was something that could land him in jail. You'll have to find a link to somewhere it says that in my post instead of someone else's. There are lots of reasons to get attorneys that don't have anything to do with jail.

I have not said that he has done nothing. He has done a lot.

Anyway. I think you have done a better job explaining your case and describing the issues you have with JD in the last couple pages of this thread and I understand the frustration and warnings better now.

I am glad that it has been beneficial that my communication has been more clear recently. I am not in the middle of legal battles that have to do with him anymore so it is easier for me to be more clear in writing on a message board.

[_moksha]

This message board alone was more vital than those two crazy goons.

Thanks. :-) And yet THEY are the ones making 90K per year or getting free laptop computers, whereas I'm sitting here raking in precisely $0. :-(

Probably the result of the glamorization of podcast stars over a hardworking and dedicated messageboard dedicated to an unwavering fight against censorship, but for truth, justice, and the Shadesian way.

[_Rosebud]

[URL deleted]

Interestingly, after I left Mormonism, I signed a contract with another egotistical maniac. Sigh. I missed the obvious signs again... but only before I signed. As soon as my signature was on the line, I saw another cult: all his followers praising him and afraid to stand up to him. I've been working my way out of that legal contract since.

Point being: There are egotistical maniacs everywhere, inside and outside of Mormonism, they're very dangerous, and there's something about me that makes me vulnerable. My vulnerability is my problem, but to some extent, it comes from Mormonism. I've started to sort that out and I'm thankful that this last time I saw it quickly and started running for the fire escape almost immediately.... before this guy got me roped into his illegal recordings, etc. (seriously, same kind of egotistical ____ without the Mormon miracle of forgiveness drama-or the non 13-yo dance interactions). My better discernment has helped.

I'm really pissed that all these transitioning Mormons, who I care about, run into JD first thing (and his female counterparts) and get sucked into a new set of problems that is a repeat of the trauma they're trying to escape. Over the last 5 years I've seen such positive development and a maturing of the post-Mo community. I'd like it to develop beyond its dependence on its charismatic leader. But I was also saying that in 2011, so it probably says more about me than anyone.

The thing is that I only want growth beyond that enough to push buttons on the system from here now. I've resigned all my positions. If I ever get back into any projects, it will be with one of the few solid, grounded leaders. They're harder to find because they're not screaming from mountaintops as often.

Maybe someone needs to put together a blueprint for not being deceived by the creeps in the transitioning Mormon landscape. Maybe that should be me, idk. I really only want to post on message boards occasionally and live the rest of my life now I guess.

I suppose all of this comes down to the fact that I want to be a thorn in JD's side until enough people do the hard work of protecting the vulnerable. But that's one of my idealistic crusades. I'm very angry about all the actions he takes that get in the way of helping the people he keeps announcing that he's helping. But there will always be egotistical maniacs with us so maybe all my poking is useless. Still, I think it's gotten the warning out.

Seriously, something was very wrong with me while I was trying to build the Open Stories Foundation. Maybe I just had no idea, yet, how cruel he could be and how impossible it would be for a board to really run that ship. While I saw some of his problems, I didn't comprehend the whole picture. Now I'm just frightened for new members of his communities

The church creates a dependent people, disappoints them, then abandons them to these jerks and very few seem to safely navigate the weeds. I certainly didn't. But what can the church do to protect people from JD besides what they've already done?

Thanks for sharing...that's a lot of credibility...my only question is you must have had feelings for John at one time (I'm assuming) unless your affair was strictly a one night stand kind of fling and a physical one...I can only imagine that once you had feeling for him...he must have really hurt you deeply and emotionally for this melodrama to have taken such a serious turn...because all I sense now it deep hatred.

Yes, I loved him.

He helped me understand what was different between a man who does not have autism and a man who does. That was good information for me to gain. I was able to find an emotional connection with JD that I was never able to share with my ex-husband, at no fault of my ex's... or really anyone's. That's just how developmental disabilities work. I am really grateful that the emotional experience with JD helped me understand what was wrong at home. I married far too young and with too little experience to know and having another man pursue me so devotedly helped me make more sense of life. I loved JD because I would have loved just about anyone who treated me so well (at first) and paid so much attention to me. People with autism are more than a little self-obsessed and I didn't have an emotional relationship with my ex-husband at all. I hadn't experienced emotional connection in a romantic relationship since I had broken up with a boyfriend at the age of 18.

Like I said, I was vulnerable... JD spotted it.

But that growth experience would have been better for me if it had happened without the mix up of the church drama. I got to have my emotional/sexual discovery discussed by the Q15 and tens of thousands because JD needed to earn his business excommunication. It was humiliating. And now I am here discussing it because hey, why not at this point? I would have loved to keep things quiet, but JD had a coverup scheme he needed to put in action. Livid doesn't quite capture how I feel about what he's done.

How do I feel about JD now? Idk. Him personally? I just think he's an idiot/creep/not worth much emotion personally. The anger is at the harm that came to my life because of him and that he will now, because of this big drama, always be part of it. I wanted privacy and to work building environments and systems behind the scenes. I crave quiet. He knows that about me and took advantage of my propensity to watch, plan and lead through changing systems, not standing on a podium or spreading my voice around on a podcast. (I mean don't we have enough of that already?)

It has taken a lot of personal change for me to make it through the publicity of all of this. He didn't expect it of me and I didn't know I had it in me. His plan would have worked just fine if I hadn't changed.

I'm also very angry about what he's doing. That anger goes back to who I was before I met him and the reasons I wanted to help build the Open Stories Foundation in the first place. I grew up in SLC and my dad worked for the church. I was a member of an old Mormon family with ancestral ties to Mormon "royalty" and I've always known about polygamy and a lot of the problems in the church. They were part of my Mormon experience from the beginning. I've been angry at the church for the way it treats women since I was a little girl. I've been livid about the way it treats LGBT people as well as its lack of attention to the problems with child abuse in the Boy Scouts and Mormon wards since I was a teenager. (We had a big Boy Scout abuse blow up in my stake when I was growing up.... etc. etc.etc.)

I helped JD because I was excited about the Internet and social media and the opportunity to really do something to solve the problems I had been observing for so long. I worked hard and in the end, JD threw a temper tantrum, told a bunch of lies, set a major public drama in action, did everything he could to sweep me under the rug, took the money, etc. I knew he was a little boy, but I didn't know how little until it all unfolded. I kept expecting him to get over it and for his attacks to taper off, but they didn't. Instead, my life became part of his drama.

And I'm very angry about that.

And angry that here we are, 2017, and the same old dramas keep happening and all the new people come into the system not knowing who he is and that he's able to start all over again. Again and again and again. The church just keeps feeding him new followers.

I'm angry that all of the causes I have cared about since I was very young get tainted by this man.

Pissed.

But I'm also learning to walk away from the issues that were important to me as a teenager, in my twenties and thirties. I should never have taken on the problems in Mormonism as if they were something I might be able to help solve. The real breakup I need to do with the church is a breakup between myself and my passion for trying to hold the brethren accountable. I'm pissed that they're such lousy leaders and that the guy we've got holding them accountable is just as lousy a leader as they are.

I wish the people in charge were more qualified all around.

[_lostindc]

Rosebud,

Thanks for sharing. You put yourself out there (again). Pretty brave of you. I think you're a pretty god damn cool person. I think most of us here can relate to trust issues and let downs, afterall most of us here were Mormon at some point. Unfortunately, you had to deal with an extra helping of manipulation from John.

I do believe the community is turning on John and after today enough information is on the internet that he might not easily manipulate others. It would be super great if some of these cult personalities would just lead a more private life.

[_cwald]

lostindc wrote: Thanks for sharing. You put yourself out there (again). Pretty brave of you. I think you're a pretty god damn cool person. I think most of us here can relate to trust issues and let downs, afterall most of us here were Mormon at some point. Unfortunately, you had to deal with an extra helping of manipulation from John.

I do believe the community is turning on John and after today enough information is on the internet that he might not easily manipulate others. It would be super great if some of these cult personalities would just lead a more private life.

Absolutely agree, lostindc.

Rosebud. This is a good post. It explains a lot. It feels like we are FINALLY getting to the nuts and bolts of what you have been trying to say for a couple of years now without having to trudge through the discussion and read between the lines to try and figure out what you are talking about.

Yes, I loved him.

He helped me understand what was different between a man who does not have autism and a man who does. That was good information for me to gain. I was able to find an emotional connection with JD that I was never able to share with my ex-husband, at no fault of my ex's... or really anyone's. That's just how developmental disabilities work. I am really grateful that the emotional experience with JD helped me understand what was wrong at home. I married far too young and with too little experience to know and having another man pursue me so devotedly helped me make more sense of life. I loved JD because I would have loved just about anyone who treated me so well (at first) and paid so much attention to me. People with autism are more than a little self-obsessed and I didn't have an emotional relationship with my ex-husband at all. I hadn't experienced emotional connection in a romantic relationship since I had broken up with a boyfriend at the age of 18.

Like I said, I was vulnerable... JD spotted it.

But that growth experience would have been better for me if it had happened without the mix up of the church drama. I got to have my emotional/sexual discovery discussed by the Q15 and tens of thousands because JD needed to earn his business excommunication. It was humiliating. And now I am here discussing it because hey, why not at this point? I would have loved to keep things quiet, but JD had a coverup scheme he needed to put in action. Livid doesn't quite capture how I feel about what he's done.

How do I feel about JD now? Idk. Him personally? I just think he's an idiot/creep/not worth much emotion personally. The anger is at the harm that came to my life because of him and that he will now, because of this big drama, always be part of it. I wanted privacy and to work building environments and systems behind the scenes. I crave quiet. He knows that about me and took advantage of my propensity to watch, plan and lead through changing systems, not standing on a podium or spreading my voice around on a podcast. (I mean don't we have enough of that already?)

It has taken a lot of personal change for me to make it through the publicity of all of this. He didn't expect it of me and I didn't know I had it in me. His plan would have worked just fine if I hadn't changed.

I'm also very angry about what he's doing. That anger goes back to who I was before I met him and the reasons I wanted to help build the Open Stories Foundation in the first place. I grew up in Salt Lake City and my dad worked for the church. I was a member of an old Mormon family with ancestral ties to Mormon "royalty" and I've always known about polygamy and a lot of the problems in the church. They were part of my Mormon experience from the beginning. I've been angry at the church for the way it treats women since I was a little girl. I've been livid about the way it treats LGBT people as well as its lack of attention to the problems with child abuse in the Boy Scouts and Mormon wards since I was a teenager. (We had a big Boy Scout abuse blow up in my stake when I was growing up.... etc. etc.etc.)

I helped JD because I was excited about the Internet and social media and the opportunity to really do something to solve the problems I had been observing for so long. I worked hard and in the end, JD threw a temper tantrum, told a bunch of lies, set a major public drama in action, did everything he could to sweep me under the rug, took the money, etc. I knew he was a little boy, but I didn't know how little until it all unfolded. I kept expecting him to get over it and for his attacks to taper off, but they didn't. Instead, my life became part of his drama.

And I'm very angry about that.

And angry that here we are, 2017, and the same old dramas keep happening and all the new people come into the system not knowing who he is and that he's able to start all over again. Again and again and again. The church just keeps feeding him new followers.

I'm angry that all of the causes I have cared about since I was very young get tainted by this man.

Pissed.

But I'm also learning to walk away from the issues that were important to me as a teenager, in my twenties and thirties. I should never have taken on the problems in Mormonism as if they were something I might be able to help solve. The real breakup I need to do with the church is a breakup between myself and my passion for trying to hold the brethren accountable. I'm pissed that they're such lousy leaders and that the guy we've got holding them accountable is just as lousy a leader as they are.

I wish the people in charge were more qualified all around.

[_Tator]

I am exhausted, I just reread the entire thread.

Rosebud I will take back my "woman scorned" comment from earlier. But I must say after rereading the thread I feel I could still make a real argument for making that statement. I think could have made and justified other comments that you would not have liked.

The last couple of pages of your posts have helped me to understand a bit more. It is a little clearer now than anytime in last several years, really.

I still think there is some value and therapy in my previous suggestion of writing your story out all the way through in great detail. Not easy, it takes time and lots of rewrites but I have found this a good technique for myself. If you do this then you can post what you want or legally can. I think the story would then not be so confusing and fragmented over so many threads and over so many years.

Anyway, not easy, but I think I understand much better. I do wish you the best.

Personally if you have a case and you are comfortable with it because it would be messy, I would sue the SOB.

[_moksha]

I do believe the community is turning on John and after today enough information is on the internet that he might not easily manipulate others.

It reminds me of that old Walter Cronkite documentary series "You Are There" when we see John Wilkes Booth open the door to the Presidential box on the balcony of the Ford Theater and we just know that the South will be avenged.

[_MsJack]

The LDS I knew that went to Georgetown and American law schools went into extreme debt. They maxed out the loans and paid for the cost of living on loans. I knew of quite a few stories of 300,000+ debt just based on law school alone. I assume, besides law school cost of around 55 grand per year, these people took an addition 50 grand per year to live.

Fair enough. Thanks for the information. (I'm wondering what the heck her then-husband was doing if she was paying their entire CoL out of student loans, but that's none of my business.)

[_MsJack]

And yet THEY are the ones making 90K per year or getting free laptop computers, whereas I'm sitting here raking in precisely $0. :-(

You mean you get $0 for doing MormonDiscussions, right? I thought you had a job.

The laptop "GoFundMe" was . . . well, sometimes I think she's trying to hurt her cause. Let's leave it at that.