Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh one more thing I wanted to add. Yes, I think highly of Gurian. I actually did guest lecturing on the issue of the feminized classroom vs meeting the needs of boys.

Now, if I ruled the entire universe including society and the educational system, I would make education into a tribal intergenerational experience where at least oh say, 75% of the time was spent outdoors.

That would take care of meeting the needs of both boys, girls, increase awareness of the needs of human beings across generations, develop acceptance and empathy towards members of the community and I want to facilitate the early childhood portion of the experience. :-)

[_Lemmie]

from a reddit post:

CNN has four separate stories on front page this morning surrounding 12-year old's coming out testimony.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/Mormon ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/living/mo ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/16/living/ga ... index.html

[_6EQUJ5]

Thanks for the link Doc, a good palate-cleanser for "purple pants have meaning" Water Dog's stereotypical approach.

Wearing purple pants to church is a sign of support for LGBT Mormons.

http://pantstochurch.com/

[_Jersey Girl]

WD I quick pulled my books off the shelf. I have The Wonder of Boys and Boys and Girls Learn Differently!Both by Gurian.

I have another by Dan Hodgins who is basically riffing off Gurian and others. I've heard him lecture in person, but in my view he's making a buck off the work off others and I don't always appreciate the approaches that he takes.

[_Lemmie]

from a reddit post:

CNN has four separate stories on front page this morning surrounding 12-year old's coming out testimony.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/Mormon ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/living/mo ... index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/16/living/ga ... index.html

the fourth one is very sad.

On the day Fisher's body was found, Elder David A. Bednar, one of the church's top leaders and considered a "prophet, seer, and revelator," made media waves when he said, "There are no homosexual members of the church."

[_Jersey Girl]

Interesting. I've read several of his books, including Wonder of Boys, and Wonder of Girls. I really like his work. His approach seems very down to earth to me. From my reading I know he is controversial among some in the psychology and child development communities... the more extreme left-wing types. If you look at the Amazon reviews of his books it can get pretty wild. A lot of irate feminist types flaming him. He'll have a mix of good and well-worded reviews from people who clearly know their stuff, and then a huge number of flame posts like some feminist blog put out the word to pounce on him. I didn't really have any point to make, just curious if you were familiar with him. I guess seeing your reaction helps me gauge where you are. So again I'd say we're not far apart. I just have a certain outlandish style of communicating that may at first reaction lead to death threats I suppose. Give it time, I'll grow on you :) There are some things I wouldn't mind chatting about though since we're in this territory, like feminism in the church, emasculation of men, etc., but it would be a subject shift from the OP. Actually about two years ago I quoted Gurian over in this thread. If you want to have that discussion we can hop over there.

My project is toast at the moment because see where my passion is?

I can only tell you what I believe to be true based on my own experience. I believe that his work is well researched and I think that it should be incorporated into curriculum for student teachers whether they are male or female. My journey into gender differences in the classroom began with a lecture by Dan Hodgins, Like I said, I didn't appreciate his approach because it was a little too slick for my liking though time limitations might have been the reason for that. Still, he managed to make my antennae go up and Gurian was on his list of resources.

I shifted over to Gurian.

It was account of Gurian and my correspondence with him, that I transformed my teaching practice and environment to accommodate the needs of boys. For example, he raise awareness in me with regard to the fact that classrooms are feminized and led to research to the effect that this issue has been raised for years on end, and we weren't exposed to it in our female dominated college courses.

I basically ended up "breaking all the rules" that we are taught in terms of allowing what previously had never been allowed in our classrooms going back to the late 80's. I was simultaneously basing my approach on constructivist theory and authentic play (long story) and I can only tell you that the years after I made these changes were filled with satisfying experiences for the boys in my class, a sense of unity and camaraderie between the boys, physical and social conflicts were essentially eradicated and during that process I found myself not only being invited to gear my guest lecturing towards that focus and well, challenging a few college professors (with my administrator in tow knowing I would do it--"Respond to that, Ms. Jersey") who let discussions about challenging behaviors that 9 times out of 10 involved reports on male students go unaddressed in terms of not acknowledging what teachers could do to reduce the instances of challenging behaviors and instead confining their answers to how they could encourage boys to conform to female standards of behavior and classroom management techniques.

Because I don't buy the "boys will be boys" so let's take away their outside time as a consequence BS, when what we should be doing is giving them more.

I'll check the thread you linked to. I apologize for driving this off topic. As you can see, this is where my true interest lies around here and I hardly ever get a chance to engage.

These exchanges didn't turn out the way I expect them to, thanks to you. Beats the bag over the head, right?

[_Jersey Girl]

WD here is a little food for thought. When you think about the work of Gurian and how boys need a different type of environment/schedule, more space and more time on account of testosterone spikes....think about what I said about prenatal hormone influences on the developing fetus and ask yourself, if boys are wired this way, what happens when the brains of girls are influenced differently than we expect them to typically be in utero?

There is research that indicates (or at least a working hypothesis) that prenatal hormones might be responsible for autism outcomes. That is to say, the extreme reptilian brain.

All of this is very fascinating, think about how these ideas fold into the issue of determining sexual orientation. I'm no expert, but I think there is real possibility (not solid evidence) that researchers are on the right track here.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Just as we all do, he has reinterpreted his own past to suit his current narrative. Nothing wrong with that, but important to keep in perspective.

What was it from the article that gave you that impression?

- Doc

[_Sanctorian]

Now we have some level headed conversation going on here. I agree with Dog on a few points:

1. This girl was used as a political piece. She might have had the desire to share her thoughts and have pure intentions in doing so in her 12 year old mind. After watching the Dehlin interview, you can tell this girl is very sensitive and has a big heart. But, that doesn't negate the fact the mom filmed the testimony. Mom knew what she was doing and was hoping for a reaction against the church. That's poor form on the moms part. (Not going to say she's a bulldyke dog ;).

2. I also agree this girl has no idea what it means to be a lesbian. All she knows is she has a general attraction to girls over boys. I think it's hard to assign any real sort of sexual orientation until you actually start having sexual acts. What sort of porn gets you off. What do you fantasize about when you masturbate. What sort of sex do you like etc. Until you start performing sexual acts, simple attraction does not seem like a defining moment on your sexual journey.

3. The church has a right to police its own culture.

With those points, I agree with the dog. However, the shock factor of an authoritative figure silencing anyone is the defining moment in this example. Had this been a teenage girl that took her girlfriend to prom last month and shared the same testimony and had the same mic turned off, we'd be having the exact same conversation about the church being bad for gays. Regardless of the girls age and whether or not we can accurately determine if she is full lesbian or not, the church and this particular leader eff'd up as a direct result of church policy regarding homosexuality by turning off the mic.

To prove my point, watch this video of a validictorian having his mic shut off by school administrators when he begins to criticize them. That's how you eff up and make yourself or your organization look bad and turn yourself into a viral video.

https://youtu.be/Hw4Le_EEI8w

[_Lemmie]

I'm just challenging the idea that she could "know" [she is gay] at 12. Frankly I'm not sure anybody could ever really "know" [they are gay].

Maybe you don't realize how offensive that statement is. So if no gay people can "know" their sexual orientation, it stands to reason that no straight people can "know" their sexual orientation either, right?

You've refused to verify any of your factual statements by the tactic of calling them opinions, so rather than adding another CFR to the very long list, I will take your entire last post as opinion, very, very uneducated opinion.