harmony wrote:You weren't born into the LDS church, were you, Ray? Neither was I. I suspect we have a different way of looking at the church than someone who is BIC for multiple generations. I could walk away with few repercussions. My Sweet Pickle would carry the stigma all the rest of his life, were he to do that. How a person sees the church is dependent to no small degree on where that person started out. A convert is always a convert. They always knew another way of life. BIC have never known anything else.
Then perhaps, harmony, they (exmos) can learn a thing or two from us?
I was a convert at 20, but I was raised by a fairly conscientious Catholic father who instilled into me, at a very early age, how wrong masturbation was (70 odd years on my brother still talks about this too, and my sister is still a devoted Catholic), and that we must attend Church every Sunday. I was dragged out of bed every Sunday morning at six o'clock to go to Church. I was indoctrinated by nuns and priests during all of my youthful years, including one year at a tough boarding school in Catholic Ireland, yet I still believed there was much good in Catholicism. At 14 I walked away from Catholicism, and my father respected my right to choose. I fully understand that it's much, much harder for Mormons to do this. My father didn't think any less of me, and all he said was that he was "disappointed". Mormons don't do this. There is a much greater stigma attached to leaving. But does that justify all the anger? Two wrongs don't make a right, as they say. I
would like to see this addressed more, but it isn't going to be amidst all the shouting, screaming, demonising of Mormons, and the obnoxious stuff seen on the likes of RFM. I keep being told that I don't "understand" the plight of exmos. I gained a thorough understanding of this plight in 1987, from firsthand experience, and I do admit that had RFM been around I
might have been vocal there for a while. In fact I'll make myself even more of a hypocrite and say I might have relished it! But should a reformed smoker remain silent on the dangers of smoking, just because he was once a smoker? I have learned that all of this venting is unproductive, because it creates a cycle of animosity to the Church. It feeds and reinforces the person's negativity. But everyone is different, and some handle problems better than others. It's like a divorce, you can tell the world that your wife has a wart on her ass, halitosis, and farts like a cow, but I think "the world" would like to hear something more substantial than that, bearing in mind that there are two sides to every story. Yes, Mormons are not guilty as charged by exmos. They have a side to explain and opinions to express too, as Wade tried to do.
harmony wrote:And if you think most LDS have a more spiritual life than you do, well... perhaps they do. But that doesn't mean the average LDS member has a more spiritual life than the average EV or the average active Catholic. A more intricately involved with the church life, maybe... but that doesn't mean they're more spiritual. Activity in the church doesn't guarentee a more spiritual life.
I am well aware of that. I have long admired Buddhists and the Buddhist philosophy. Some of my Buddhist friends have had more influence on me than Mormons. They have something I like a lot. Maybe one day I'll be a practicing Buddhist Mormon, or Mormon Buddhist.
harmony wrote:He's not saying that either, Ray. There is no study, no documentation, no foundation for either premise. Because the church doesn't exactly give exit interviews, to find out why people leave, we have no way of knowing. The church doesn't acknowledge that people leave at all, let alone why. Speculation on either side of the question is just speculation; neither side can claim any actual facts.
Agreed. What I do not agree with is the
way Scratch goes about this.