Dynasitc Marriages-Doctrinal Question

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_BishopRic
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Post by _BishopRic »

charity wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
charity wrote:
harmony wrote:
charity wrote:I know what drives your agenda. You hate the idea of plural marriage. And you will twist any fact you can find to fit your agenda. That you cannot see the growth of the Church before and after the Manifesto as being essentially the same shows that you cannot objectively evaluate evidence.


You said the Saints were blessed for following polygamy. I showed where they were not. If anything, they were cursed.


You did not do anything to prove that polygamy caused any of the problems they had. The Saints were forced out of Palmyra, Kirtland, and Missouri long before they had to leave Nauvoo "because" of polygamy. Wherever the Saints are, there is going to be pesecution. Just the times change and it is called by different names.

The problems of living in pioneer times were shared by many. I did not have Mormon pioneers in my history, but a few years later, my great grandmother, as a child, and her family cross the plains going to California. They suffered the same things.

My daughter applied for position as psychiatric intake aide at a hospital in Texas a few years ago. Of course, her resume included the informaiton that she had her degree from Brigham Young University and had 2 years experience as a psychatric intake aide at Utah Valley Hospital. She didn't get the job, which went to a person with no college degree and no prior experience. The personnel director said it was because, "a lot of the staff would be uncomfortable working with a Mormon." Modern days.

Did you notice my post about the Puritans? Times were hard! And it wasn't caused by polygamy.

About blessings. God's blessings aren't counted in fancy houses, easy living, and the acceptance of the world.


Gotta love the Mormon victim attitude. I had it once.


You know you might say you are paranoid, but there might really be people out to get you. You think it has nothing to do with persecution if people won't hire you for a job you are well qualified for just because you are Mormon?


Well, I could give you dozens of people here in Zion who won't get hired because they are NOT Mormon. Cuts both ways.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_Brackite
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Post by _Brackite »

charity wrote:
liz3564 wrote:Charity--

Do you see plural marriage being reinstated, and, do you think that things would be better if it was?


I don't think it will. But that is just my fallible opinion. I don't know what the difference is in terms of men who will be worthy of exaltation and women who will be. In my ward, and every ward I have been in, faithful LDS women outnumber faithful LDS men. So, in terms of every woman who is worthy for exaltation being sealed to a worthy man, some men are going to have to have more than one wife. But that could easily be taken care of in the next phase of existence.

Financially, there isn't a need now. Single women can support themselves. This was more difficult in the 1880's.

If it were revealed that the Church would be asked to live the law of plural marriage, of course it would be better. The Lord only gives commandments for the benefit of His children, even when we don't understand why.




Hi Charity,

According to LDS Doctrine, Yes, There will be more Women worthy of exaltation, than their will be men. That is why according to LDS Doctrine, that there will be Polygamy in Heaven, because there will be more women than men in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine.
The Following is from Brigham Young:

Monogamy, or restrictions by law to one wife, is no part of the economy of Heaven among men. Such a system was commenced by the founders of the Roman empire. That empire was founded on the banks of the Tiber by wandering brigands. When these robbers founded the city of Rome, it was evident to them that their success in attaining a balance of power with their neighbours, depended upon introducing females into their body politic, so they stole them from the Sabines, who were near neighbours. The scarcity of women gave existence to laws restricting one wife to one man. Rome became the mistress of the world, and introduced this order of monogamy wherever her sway was acknowledged. Thus this monogamic order of marriage, so esteemed by modern Christians as a holy sacrament and divine institution, is nothing but a system established by a set of robbers.

...

Why do we believe in and practise polygamy? Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practiced it. "And is that religion popular in heaven?" It is the only popular religion there, for this is the religion of Abraham, and, unless we do the works of Abraham, we are not Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise.

( Journal of Discourses, Volume #9. , Bold Emphasis Mine. )



Next, The Following is Part from a Speech that the Former 13th LDS Church President, Ezra Taft Benson gave in the Priesthood Session, Tilted, ‘To the Single Adult Brethren of the Church,’ Back in April of 1988:

To obtain a fulness of glory and exaltation in the celestial kingdom, one must enter into this holiest of ordinances.

Without marriage, the purposes of the Lord would be frustrated. Choice spirits would be withheld from the experience of mortality. And postponing marriage unduly often means limiting your posterity, and the time will come, brethren, when you will feel and know that loss.

I can assure you that the greatest responsibility and the greatest joys in life are centered in the family, honorable marriage, and rearing a righteous posterity. And the older you become, the less likely you are to marry, and then you may lose these eternal blessings altogether.

President Spencer W. Kimball recounted an experience he once had:

“Recently I met a young returned missionary who is 35 years old. He had been home from his mission for 14 years and yet he was little concerned about his bachelorhood, and laughed about it.

“I shall feel sorry for this young man when the day comes that he faces the Great Judge at the throne and when the Lord asks this boy: ‘Where is your wife?’ All of his excuses which he gave to his fellows on earth will seem very light and senseless when he answers the Judge. ‘I was very busy,’ or ‘I felt I should get my education first,’ or ‘I did not find the right girl’—such answers will be hollow and of little avail. He knew he was commanded to find a wife and marry her and make her happy. He knew it was his duty to become the father of children and provide a rich, full life for them as they grew up. He knew all this, yet postponed his responsibility”
(Ensign, Feb. 1975, p. 2).

( Ezra Taft Benson, “To the Single Adult Brethren of the Church,” Ensign, May 1988, Page 51: Link. Bold Emphasis Mine. )



Now, The Following is Part from a Speech that the Former 13th LDS Church President Ezra Taft Benson gave in the General Women Session Meeting, Titled, 'To the Single Adult Sisters of the Church,' Back in September of 1988:


I also recognize that not all women in the Church will have an opportunity for marriage and motherhood in mortality. But if those of you in this situation are worthy and endure faithfully, you can be assured of all blessings from a kind and loving Heavenly Father—and I emphasize all blessings.

I assure you that if you have to wait even until the next life to be blessed with a choice companion, God will surely compensate you. Time is numbered only to man. God has your eternal perspective in mind.

I also recognize that some of our sisters are widowed or divorced. My heart is drawn to you who are in these circumstances. The Brethren pray for you, and we feel a great obligation to see that your needs are met. Trust in the Lord. Be assured He loves you and we love you.

If you are a single parent, make friends with others in similar situations and develop friendships with married couples. Counsel with your priesthood leaders. Let them know of your needs and wants. Single parenthood is understood by the Lord. He knows the special challenges that are yours. You are His daughters. He loves you and will bless and sustain you. This I know.

( Ezra Taft Benson, Ensign, November, 1988: Link. )
Last edited by MSNbot Media on Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Brackite
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Post by _Brackite »

It is OK, for Women in the Church to remain single throughout their lives, and Not men, mainly because Polygamy will be Practiced Big time in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine, and any one of the 'worthy' Polygamous Men up there, will be able take another and another woman who was single throughout during her time on earth, as another celestial wife of his.

It is Not OK for any man in the Church to remain single throughout their lives, because if he is not able to get married anytime in this life, he will not be able to find a woman for his wife in the Celestial Kingdom, because Polygamy will be Practiced Big time in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine. That Poor man will Not be able to enter into the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine, and he will end up being in the bottom Part of the Celestial Kingdom, being a ministering angel forever and ever there. This is so sad, if it is true .
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

charity wrote:So, why do you think that those who knew Joseph Smith the best, worked with him everyday, followed him as they were chased from place to place to place did so if they thuoght he had an affair and lost the spiriti? They were in a better position to know you any of you.


Uh, charity, I'm sure it's occurred to you that some of those who knew him best were in on the plural marriage thing. Or did that escape you?

And they didn't all follow him. Perhap you prefer to ignore those who didn't.. you know... the Oliver Cowdery's... the William Law's... they were the ones who wanted to expose him... because they knew him best.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

charity wrote:About blessings. God's blessings aren't counted in fancy houses, easy living, and the acceptance of the world.


So you think it's a blessing to have your leader killed.

And you think it's a blessing to be thrown out of your own home into the snow with no provisions and only the clothes on your back.

And you think it's a blessing to have your children or your spouse die of exposure.

I'll pass on your "blessings", thanks.

And someone better tell the members who are living in those million dollar homes on Recommend Ridge above SLC that their lifestyle isn't a blessing from God. I'm sure they're thanking the wrong entity every night in their prayers.
_charity
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Post by _charity »

BishopRic wrote:
Simple. The same reason Jones and Koresh' followers stuck by him to the bitter end. As a psychologist Charity, I would think you'd understand the attachment to the shepherd mentality.


No, it isn't the same reason, which psychologists know, because the characteristics of followers of JOnes and Koresh are substantially different from the Saints.

There was no forced isolation from friends and family, no sensation deprivation, they were taught not to rely on one man, there was a diffusion of leadership, there was no force to keep membership, there was plenty of outside communication and interaction. I could go on. This is what psychologists know.
_charity
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Post by _charity »

BishopRic wrote:Gotta love the Mormon victim attitude. I had it once.


You know you might say you are paranoid, but there might really be people out to get you. You think it has nothing to do with persecution if people won't hire you for a job you are well qualified for just because you are Mormon?[/quote]

Well, I could give you dozens of people here in Zion who won't get hired because they are NOT Mormon. Cuts both ways.[/quote]

Gotta love the Gentile in Zion victim attitude. Seems like you changed one victim attitude for another.
_charity
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Post by _charity »

Brackite wrote:It is OK, for Women in the Church to remain single throughout their lives, and Not men, mainly because Polygamy will be Practiced Big time in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine, and any one of the 'worthy' Polygamous Men up there, will be able take another and another woman who was single throughout during her time on earth, as another celestial wife of his.

It is Not OK for any man in the Church to remain single throughout their lives, because if he is not able to get married anytime in this life, he will not be able to find a woman for his wife in the Celestial Kingdom, because Polygamy will be Practiced Big time in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine. That Poor man will Not be able to enter into the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom, according to LDS Doctrine, and he will end up being in the bottom Part of the Celestial Kingdom, being a ministering angel forever and ever there. This is so sad, if it is true .


Or if not polygamy, one of those males who died before marrying, who was otherwise worthy of a spouse. I know of several families whose sons have died before reaching marriageable age.

It is not OK for men stay unmarried, because in our culture, it is the male who initiates courtship. If a man neglects hiw responsbility here, why would he suddenly be able to shoulder it in the next life? Males can marry if they want. Women have to be asked.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

charity
It is not OK for men stay unmarried, because in our culture, it is the male who initiates courtship. If a man neglects hiw responsbility here, why would he suddenly be able to shoulder it in the next life? Males can marry if they want. Women have to be asked.



I didn't read this. It never happened.
_charity
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Post by _charity »

harmony wrote:
charity wrote:So, why do you think that those who knew Joseph Smith the best, worked with him everyday, followed him as they were chased from place to place to place did so if they thuoght he had an affair and lost the spiriti? They were in a better position to know you any of you.


Uh, charity, I'm sure it's occurred to you that some of those who knew him best were in on the plural marriage thing. Or did that escape you?

And they didn't all follow him. Perhap you prefer to ignore those who didn't.. you know... the Oliver Cowdery's... the William Law's... they were the ones who wanted to expose him... because they knew him best.


Oliver Cowdery came back. William Law was an adulterer who got caught and wanted revenge. None of Joseph's close companions wanted to have to live the law of plural marriage. I think it is projection on the part of many here who assume that men were more than eager to have multiple wives. Get your minds out the gutter, those of you who are guilty.
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