Cognitive Distortion #1: Lies and Deceit

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

beastie wrote:Mr. Liddy owns a department store that specializes in electronics, Liddy’s Department Store. Mr. Liddy ran a splashy ad advertising the sale of a high definition TV for a very low price. Five customers purchased the TV.

Customer A purchased the TV, took it home, hooked it up. After a few days, he became suspicious of the quality and began wondering if it really were a high definition TV after all. He did some investigation into the product, and discovered that it really wasn’t a high definition TV after all. He had bought a standard TV, believing it to be a high definition TV. He was angry about being deceived. He returned to the store and demanded his money back. But Mr. Liddy would not admit that this was a standard TV, and implied that Customer A was trying to pull off a scam. Customer A clearly either just changed his mind and was trying to blame Mr. Liddy, or Customer A was an agitator from the competition, or Customer A was mentally unbalanced. Mr. Liddy didn’t know which, but he wasn’t going to allow Customer A to cheat Mr. Liddy, so he refused to give him a refund. Customer A is now even angrier. He is filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, is telling all his friends and neighbors not to shop at Liddy’s Department Store, and is writing a letter to the editor of the paper warning others. He may even file a lawsuit.

Customer B purchased the TV, took it home, hooked it up, and enjoyed it. Of course, Customer B doesn’t know anything about High Definition TV other than it was The Thing to have, so he didn’t become suspicious from the poor picture quality. Customer B still believes he purchased a high definition TV.

Customer C didn’t actually purchase the TV, but his parents gave it to him as a hand-me-down. He knows enough about high definition to recognize that even though his parents believed it was a high definition TV, it really is a regular standard TV. But he didn’t invest any money or time in it, so he doesn’t really care. He’ll just use it as a regular old TV.

Customer D purchased the TV, took it home, and also realized it wasn’t a high definition TV. It was a standard TV. But customer D is Mr. Liddy’s cousin, and to make a fuss would cause a family problem. He grew up with Mr. Liddy and considers him his friend. He doesn’t believe Mr. Liddy would intentionally deceive him, either, so isn’t really mad. He just tries to shrug it off and enjoy it as a regular TV.

Customer E purchased the TV, took it home, and also realized it wasn’t a high definition TV. It was a standard TV. But Customer E happens to be a spinster who is deeply in love with Mr. Liddy and fantasizes about him noticing her one day and falling in love with her, too. Maybe even marrying her. Customer E not only accepts that Mr. Liddy wasn’t intentionally deceiving her, but convinces herself that the TV she actually has is far superior to a High Definition TV anyway, and is really happy about the situation.

Now, is Customer A suffering from “cognitive distortions”?

The only way to know is to know two things:

1) Is the TV a high definition TV or a standard TV?
2) If it is a standard TV after all, did Mr. Liddy knowingly deceive Customer A?

Whether or not Customer A is suffering from a cognitive distortion in his anger depends entirely upon number 1. How he will proceed later, in terms of filing lawsuits or whatever, depends upon number 2.

Assuming that the TV really is a standard TV after all, then not only is Customer A justified in his anger, but even if Mr. Liddy unknowingly sold him a standard TV as a high definition TV, it is Mr. Liddy’s responsibility to provide accurate information to the public before enticing people to buy his product.

Now imagine that the purchase of the product didn’t just result in some inconvenience and lost dollars. Imagine the purchase of the “product” entailed making every subsequent life decision based on the belief that the product was what it had been advertised to be. Imagine the possible losses incurred then.

So the dynamic of loss and hurt can only be resolved by first resolving what kind of TV was purchased in the first place. Pretending that doesn’t matter might even be called a cognitive distortion.


This is an interesting, though still "who is Right" focused, and thus irrelevant, scenerio. Perhaps we can address it once we come to a consensus on the WORKABLE solution to the relevant scenerio. Better yet, perhaps you can take this scenerio to the "Venting" thread where it is relevant.

(Here we are closing in on page three of this thread and Beastie and Who Knows still haven't got a clue. Oh well...)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

wenglund wrote:(Here we are closing in on page three of this thread and Beastie and Who Knows still haven't got a clue. Oh well...)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I guess you're right - I haven't got a clue as to what game you're playing, or why you're playing it.

All I know about the game is - Wade is right and everyone else is wrong. Wade wins, everyone else loses.

Other than that, I'm at a loss.
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Runtu wrote:
wenglund wrote:
I would think that the more WORKABLE solutions (if not more simple solutions) would have to do with "internalizations", where all parties take back control over their emotional dispositions. In other words, we take back control of the only person we ultimately have control over--i.e. ourselves.

What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Wade, you are quite right that it is a choice to become angry. Unfortunately, most of us were completely unprepared for the loss of our faith. As long as the church continues to play fast and loose with the truth, people will get hurt. And many of those will become angry. It's easy to blame people who have been lied to for reacting badly to the lies, isn't it? Of course, you'll just say that the very fact that the church lies is a cognitive distortion. Whatever.


This thread isn't about BLAMING. It is about what WORKS. (Please think about that for a minute. There is a significant, self-empowering key hidden in plain sight in those two brief sentences, that can unlock the chains binding the dynamic/cycle of hurt and anger and grief in the case in question. The solution is so close that if it were a snake it would have bitten you.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Who Knows wrote:
wenglund wrote:(Here we are closing in on page three of this thread and Beastie and Who Knows still haven't got a clue. Oh well...)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I guess you're right - I haven't got a clue as to what game you're playing, or why you're playing it.

All I know about the game is - Wade is right and everyone else is wrong. Wade wins, everyone else loses.

Other than that, I'm at a loss.


That was as exactly backwards, in every way, from what I have intended and am FACILITATING on this thread. So, sorry, you are now entirely at a loss--or should I say, your perceptions aren't WORKABLE. But, stay tuned, miracles can still happen. You could conceivably go from cluelessness to epiphany in a cognitive flash of enlightenment. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

wenglund wrote:That was as exactly backwards, in every way, from what I have intended and am FACILITATING on this thread. So, sorry, you are now entirely at a loss--or should I say, your perceptions aren't WORKABLE. But, stay tuned, miracles can still happen. You could conceivably go from cluelessness to epiphany in a cognitive flash of enlightenment. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Please, release me from the suspense. Tell me the (your) solution oh wise one.

I'll hold my breath...
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Who Knows wrote:
wenglund wrote:That was as exactly backwards, in every way, from what I have intended and am FACILITATING on this thread. So, sorry, you are now entirely at a loss--or should I say, your perceptions aren't WORKABLE. But, stay tuned, miracles can still happen. You could conceivably go from cluelessness to epiphany in a cognitive flash of enlightenment. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Please, release me from the suspense. Tell me the (your) solution oh wise one.

I'll hold my breath...


Don't hold your breath.

He didn't introduce a solution after over 20 pages on the last thread. What makes you think he's going to do anything different here? LOL
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Who Knows wrote:
wenglund wrote:That was as exactly backwards, in every way, from what I have intended and am FACILITATING on this thread. So, sorry, you are now entirely at a loss--or should I say, your perceptions aren't WORKABLE. But, stay tuned, miracles can still happen. You could conceivably go from cluelessness to epiphany in a cognitive flash of enlightenment. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Please, release me from the suspense. Tell me the (your) solution oh wise one.

I'll hold my breath...


Sorry, I think it is critical that the mutually WORKABLE solution is figured out by the Mr. B's of the world as well as the Mr. A's (at step 3). I have provided enough obvious clues, that I am confident you all will figure it out.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

There is a workable solution to this thread: quit playing Wade's game. There's no point, and it's a lot like playing the organ when it's not plugged in: a waste of time.
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

wenglund wrote:
Who Knows wrote:
wenglund wrote:That was as exactly backwards, in every way, from what I have intended and am FACILITATING on this thread. So, sorry, you are now entirely at a loss--or should I say, your perceptions aren't WORKABLE. But, stay tuned, miracles can still happen. You could conceivably go from cluelessness to epiphany in a cognitive flash of enlightenment. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Please, release me from the suspense. Tell me the (your) solution oh wise one.

I'll hold my breath...


Sorry, I think it is critical that the mutually WORKABLE solution is figured out by the Mr. B's of the world as well as the Mr. A's (at step 3). I have provided enough obvious clues, that I am confident you all will figure it out.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


No one can read your mind Wade. Quit f'ing around and tell us the solution to the game. I'm going to pass out here soon...
_Sam Harris
_Emeritus
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

Why do you guys continue to feed the animals?

That's why they keep coming back for more.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Post Reply