beastie wrote:Hey, I'm currently reading The God Delusion, and am drinking Mike's Hard Lemonade!!! It's a club!! :)
Later in the book Dawkins says that a deist is simply an atheist who hasn't met the theory of evolution yet.
I've really enjoyed the book.
So where are you in the book? I'm on page 250 (or around there). I loved his philosophical examples about morality - a train is about to plow into 5 people, but you can save them by diverting the train, but one other person will die - what do you do? And the others that he mentioned. Very thought provoking!
beastie wrote:Hey, I'm currently reading The God Delusion, and am drinking Mike's Hard Lemonade!!! It's a club!! :)
Later in the book Dawkins says that a deist is simply an atheist who hasn't met the theory of evolution yet.
I've really enjoyed the book.
Runtu, you're inspiring me. Maybe I ought to dig out my old missionary journals... after I wrap more Xmas presents with Mike to help me, that is.
My missionary journals make me smile. A lot of the entries start out "Today really sucked." But I read them and see a little boy who was excited to be in the world.
Many of mine start "Tracted 14 hours today. No discussions."
I see a boy who was proud, blaming himself for not baptizing, and trying harder and harder to be humble, get the Spirit and do a good job. He came back with a lot of self-doubt and disappointment.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
MormonMendacity wrote:Many of mine start "Tracted 14 hours today. No discussions."
I see a boy who was proud, blaming himself for not baptizing, and trying harder and harder to be humble, get the Spirit and do a good job. He came back with a lot of self-doubt and disappointment.
I don't think I was disappointed in my mission. I learned a lot about myself and the world around me. Self-doubt is part and parcel of being Mormon, so going on a mission didn't change that for me. But your first sentence pretty much gets at who I was back then.
I actually didn't keep a journal on my mission. I can go through letters I sent my parents and my wife and pick up a few things.
I was very lucky/blessed in where I got sent. My mission president was great and was an inspiration to all of the missionaries serving under him. I would say that 90% of the Elders were "golden" because of his leadership. the biggest change he made was that we were not to take the Bible in the field with us, the Bible was not common ground, it was battle ground. We took the Bible refrences out of the discussions and used Modern revelation scriptures in their place. Most of the people in scotland had a Bible in their house if we needed to look something up.
The baptisms went from less than ten in a month to over 100 in the two years I was there.
How did you guys lose your testimony? How is it that the more you have learned the less truth you were able to keep?
Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Gazelam wrote:I actually didn't keep a journal on my mission. I can go through letters I sent my parents and my wife and pick up a few things.
I was very lucky/blessed in where I got sent. My mission president was great and was an inspiration to all of the missionaries serving under him. I would say that 90% of the Elders were "golden" because of his leadership. the biggest change he made was that we were not to take the Bible in the field with us, the Bible was not common ground, it was battle ground. We took the Bible refrences out of the discussions and used Modern revelation scriptures in their place. Most of the people in scotland had a Bible in their house if we needed to look something up.
The baptisms went from less than ten in a month to over 100 in the two years I was there.
How did you guys lose your testimony? How is it that the more you have learned the less truth you were able to keep?
Gaz
You have it backwards, Gaz. The more we've learned, the more truth we have gained. It's just that the truth doesn't happen to align very well with the claims of Mormonism.
I remember reading a book by an LDS author back in the early 90s (the name's escaping me right now) where he essentially said that when Mormons say "I know this church is true" that we really don't know it's true; we just mean we believe it's true.
That guy was a pretty bright fellow. I have for many years pondered the idea of saying "I know......is true." I mean in the Book of Alma 32 it says that once we know we no longer have faith. Do members who say I know...is true no longer have faith? Doubtful. I think it was maybe a few years ago that I concluded what this fellow concluded. I know that Church is true really means, I have lots of faith it is, I really believe it strongly, and even I believe I have had a witness by the spirit, but I really do not know. I wish we had a culture where we could stand up and say that we really believe....
I remember reading a book by an LDS author back in the early 90s (the name's escaping me right now) where he essentially said that when Mormons say "I know this church is true" that we really don't know it's true; we just mean we believe it's true.
That guy was a pretty bright fellow. I have for many years pondered the idea of saying "I know......is true." I mean in the Book of Alma 32 it says that once we know we no longer have faith. Do members who say I know...is true no longer have faith? Doubtful. I think it was maybe a few years ago that I concluded what this fellow concluded. I know that Church is true really means, I have lots of faith it is, I really believe it strongly, and even I believe I have had a witness by the spirit, but I really do not know. I wish we had a culture where we could stand up and say that we really believe....
That would certainly be more honest than the current social construct of "knowledge" in Mormonism. Of course, I'd have to believe before I could say that had faith in Mormonism. As Homer Simpson said, "I used to believe in stuff, too."