Wanna talk about the Bible?

[_Sam Harris]

GIMR:
It is my opinion that there are some parts of the LDS faith and also Conservative Christianity that are simply not biblical. They are "doctrines of men", taken from a misreading/misinterpretation of biblical scripture, and blown way out of proportion.

Kerry:
I know I am ultra late to this, (but I just got back on these boards today, so please forgive) but my initial thought was, I can also find this to be the case in Christianity, so what? I'm honestly not trying to be a smart alec about it either. We don't worship the Bible, and don't hold it on infallible authority, so this approach doesn't really damage Mormonism, if that is what it intends to do...........

If you claim to be Christian, it does. And I hold that standard (and many other mainstream Christians do as well) to plenty who claim to be God's mouthpiece on the earth.

I'm sorry, but we as humans do not have time for tu quoque. Do you understand what spiritual abuse is, and how serious such a thing is, and how it is often brought about in the Christian religion by biblical misinterpretation?

Postscript: Um, notice that I didn't leave Christianity as a whole out of this dicussion. If this is going to be a "leave Mormons alone" argument, I'm not prepared to do that. If you reference the Bible, do it right. If you quote it, quote it right. I feel that this is not a hard thing to do, it just requires a bit more time than many are willing to put into it. It's simply easier to do what you're told instead of do the work yourself.

Me, I've worked very hard to have a biblical basis to my progressive Christian faith, and I get annoyed when I see folks being lazy with scripture. I don't worship the Bible, but I also have a good knowledge of the depth and breadth of what it is.

[_bcspace]

BCSpace, you really don't want a discussion, what you want is a validation of your faith. If you want to be LDS, and believe your faith is the only correct and true faith, fine. But don't go toe to toe with people who are making a living out of studying that which you have spoon fed in a regurgitated form to you.

Well, as long as we're going to be using terms like 'regurgitated"......You sound more like a coward who knows the cause is lost. My faith is already validated. Just trying to see if yours is......

You make a living on this? LOL!

There were no temples in early Christianity.

There were rites and esoteric beliefs that are amazingly similar to our own.

Sorry. And the Bible is true so long as it's correctly translated

All other christians believe that.

and doesn't contradict your LDS doctrine.

I find it interesting that you were unable to rattle off even one example.

I should do a blog on that, those scriptures that completely contradict LDS teachings that folks like you just brush under the rug...

You should debate it right here in the public heat of battle, not from the safety of your 'blog'.

[_Sam Harris]

BCSpace, the only thing you know how to do is puppet back what your leaders tell you.

Since you have little so much experience with mainstream Christianity, tell me how it is that all of us are like you, drawing conclusions about God from an archaic, badly translated english version of the Bible? And how much of this thread did you follow, if any? You just popped in to bear your little testimony and went off. Tell me...

How is it that the Bible (New Testament) backs the WoW? (Romans 14:2)

Racism? (Malachi 2:10)

The idea that "we are gods" (don't be so immature as to quote the scripture that says that, go to the greek and explain it), and that God is in essence a committee. (Deut. 4:35; 32:39; Romans 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4...need we go on?)

BCSpace, all you do is come in like all the other Truly Bamboozled Mormons on here (those who choose to just like I said, regurgitate instead of think), and declare victory with a bunch of insults when folks won't tell you what you want to hear.

I'm sure you didn't really read the thread in its entirety, the point I was trying to make is that you should not ascribe to a text something that is not there. Fundamentalism at its worst within the Christian religion is due to folks taking the Bible out of context, believing what is told to them without reading and studying for themselves, and resulting in pathetic hermeunetics when they want to make a "holy" point that will diminish the humanity of another. Since TBMs at their worst do just this, if you think that is wrong, work on making it right instead of picking petty fights you cannot win.

[_Sam Harris]

Oh, and please take your prejudice back to FAIR. We have enough arrogant TBMs polluting this place. I'm sorry that no one protects you here, but you're gonna have to put your money where your mouth is here, BCSpace. Not lean back on your prophets. Not make catcalls like prepubescent girls. If you reference anything, make sure it's correct, because you might get cited. And I don't take FAIR or FARMS garbage, it's not peer-reviewed.

You don't know me. You don't know why I do what I do, you just know that I'm not of your faith, and hence lost. Here's some help for you. Fundamentalists Anonymous. Check it out.

Edited to give one last giggle at the "public heat of battle" nonsense. Instead of spending so much time online trying to tell folks how close to the lower kingdoms of your heaven they are BCS, try making the real world a better, more compassionate place. There plenty on here, Mormon and not who do that.

[_bcspace]

BCSpace, the only thing you know how to do is puppet back what your leaders tell you.

You're the one who claimed there were contradictions. If this weren't the Celestial forum, I'd tell you to put up or shut up.

How is it that the Bible (New Testament) backs the WoW? (Romans 14:2)

Considering the context of the WoW stated in D&C 89:4, how does any New Testament verse contradict it? You'll first have to show that continuing revelation ends with the Bible.

Racism? (Malachi 2:10)

There is no racism in LDS doctrine. Perhaps that is why you failed to give an example.

The idea that "we are gods" (don't be so immature as to quote the scripture that says that, go to the greek and explain it), and that God is in essence a committee. (Deut. 4:35; 32:39; Romans 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4...need we go on?)

You'll need to square the verse that say there is one God with the verses that say there are many. I am perfectly capable of going back to the Greek. Notice that one of your examples says that inspite of the many real and divine gods that do exist, to us there is one God (1 Cor 8:4-6).

BCSpace, all you do is come in like all the other Truly Bamboozled Mormons on here (those who choose to just like I said, regurgitate instead of think), and declare victory with a bunch of insults when folks won't tell you what you want to hear.

Your posts are full of hot air, name calling and no substance. This is probably why you can't survive on FAIR. Fortunately for you, I don't mind forums where such is allowed as posters like you end up displaying their true colors to the world. The truth rises more quickly to the surface such as when your blatant racism was displayed in another post.

Oh, and please take your prejudice back to FAIR. We have enough arrogant TBMs polluting this place.

Perhaps Shades will ban me if you ask him. That might have the desired effect.

I'm sorry that no one protects you here, but you're gonna have to put your money where your mouth is here, BCSpace

I've done nothing but.

Not lean back on your prophets. Not make catcalls like prepubescent girls.

"Truly Bamboozled Mormons" sounds like a catcall to me.....

And I don't take FAIR or FARMS garbage, it's not peer-reviewed.

You designated the Bible as the topic. Do you know it well enough not to plagarise antiLDS literature? I doubt it.

Edited to give one last giggle at the "public heat of battle" nonsense. Instead of spending so much time online trying to tell folks how close to the lower kingdoms of your heaven they are BCS, try making the real world a better, more compassionate place. There plenty on here, Mormon and not who do that.

Wait a minute. Didn't you just say...."But don't go toe to toe with people who are making a living out of studying that which you have spoon fed in a regurgitated form to you."....?

Anyone making a living out of this sounds like one pathetic loser to me. And talk about compassion! Your love so far is not unlike that of the rabid cult-crying evangelical. Keep your crocodile tears to yourself and dust off your Bible.

[_Sam Harris]

ROFLMAO

Again, you don't know me. My goal is a master's in theology. You aren't on topic hon, I don't care about your prophet's creative prowess with fiction. Book of Mormon or not.

Need we get into the Book of Mormon and how it states that being in God's disfavor darkens your skin? How about the additional books of Moses and Abraham talking about cursed black people?

How is the priesthood ban not racist? Mind you, these are tenets of your religion, add ons to the Bible. Not indicative of mine.

It's cute that you can laugh at another's aspirations because you cannot defend your own faith. What Greek are you going to turn around to prove to us that God is a committee?

Again, if you speak the language that this board requires, you would have stayed on the original topic of the thread. The D&C, Book of Mormon, and other works of fiction authored by Joseph Smith are not the subject here. I know that the rest of us Christians are out in the cold due to the story he told his followers, but the rest of us are simply awake and in the real world.

The Bible...the subject of this thread, remember? Is a compilation of many different stories, perspectives, prophecies, utterances from a variety of different sources. I'm not a fundamentalist like you, so I can view the Bible for what it is, and see God in it without having to attribute every single word to him.

The reason why I started this thread is because of the countless times I've seen others abuse folks in God's name, claiming the Bible backed their racism, or their need to ostracize others from church...the need to be better than others, "God's chosen".

I know you cannot grasp this, needing as you do, to be a member of some elite religious group. However, if you wish, you can go back and read the many insightful posts in this thread not put there by yourself or Gaz. It's very educational.

Now, I'm going to step back into reality, and disengage your tiring uber-Mormonism. It's a little too early for Halloween, so please put back the Captain Moroni mask, will ya? Thanks!

Oh, and while you're at it, go ahead and show us all those scriptures that says that God is in essence many gods. We know already the rote one about the Spirit in the form of a dove flying over Jesus' head, that's one of the most tired and played out scriptures that LDS use to justify their faith. Yes, Jesus speaks of the Father as if they're separate. But he also speaks of them being one in purpose. It's all hermeunetics. My point is that your church and other fundamentalist organizations can and will use the Bible (wrongly) as a tool of hatred.

I'm reading a book right now that spoke of slave owners telling their slaves that the Bible backed them...but not letting them learn to read so they could see it for themselves. Such is your myopic faith, you listen to geratrics in white towers in SLC, and read only what they tell you. Hence, you'll never see reality or the truth. And I feel sorry for you, to be honest. Not that it would bother you, I'm just going to dispair in the telestial kingdom with a bad sex partner for all eternity while you get the glory of being God's chosen, and all becauase of a fantastic story a young man told 200 years ago.

[_bcspace]

Again, you don't know me. My goal is a master's in theology.

A laudible goal sweetie pie. Many who claimed to have achieved it have tangled with me on these issues and lost badly. A degree is not proof of knowledge or wisdom.

Need we get into the Book of Mormon and how it states that being in God's disfavor darkens your skin? How about the additional books of Moses and Abraham talking about cursed black people?

Need we remind a Theology major to look up 'racism' in the dictionary? Theology describing the origins of skin color is not racism.

How is the priesthood ban not racist?

For the same reason as the above. By your logic, the Bible is racist.

Mind you, these are tenets of your religion, add ons to the Bible. Not indicative of mine.

The Bible never claims to be the only and complete word of God. Quite the opposite in fact.

It's cute that you can laugh at another's aspirations because you cannot defend your own faith. What Greek are you going to turn around to prove to us that God is a committee?

What verse are you going to give to gainsay the fact that Jesus has a God and said so himself in John 20:17?

Again, if you speak the language that this board requires, you would have stayed on the original topic of the thread.

You made a claim. I'm challenging it. Quite on topic.

The D&C, Book of Mormon, and other works of fiction authored by Joseph Smith are not the subject here.

But since your claim is that the Bible contradicts LDS doctrine, you'll first have to know what LDS doctrine and context is. Seems to be a subject on which you are quite ignorant.

I know that the rest of us Christians are out in the cold due to the story he told his followers, but the rest of us are simply awake and in the real world.

I am in the world, but not of it.

The Bible...the subject of this thread, remember? Is a compilation of many different stories, perspectives, prophecies, utterances from a variety of different sources. I'm not a fundamentalist like you, so I can view the Bible for what it is, and see God in it without having to attribute every single word to him.

And yet again you claimed that the Bible contradicts LDS doctrine. You said it yourself...

It is my opinion that there are some parts of the LDS faith and also Conservative Christianity that are simply not biblical.

Where is your proof?

The reason why I started this thread is because of the countless times I've seen others abuse folks in God's name, claiming the Bible backed their racism, or their need to ostracize others from church...the need to be better than others, "God's chosen".

I know you cannot grasp this, needing as you do, to be a member of some elite religious group. However, if you wish, you can go back and read the many insightful posts in this thread not put there by yourself or Gaz. It's very educational.

What I've learned is that people like you are the root of the racism problem. You need to stop looking at yourself and others in terms of skin color. It's quite refreshing actually (from personal experience).

It's very educational.

Your invective is not educating except on the subject of what kind of person you really are. But that's not the topic of discussion so why won't you back up your claims or talk about the Bible?

Oh, and while you're at it, go ahead and show us all those scriptures that says that God is in essence many gods.

The Bible simply teaches the plurality of Gods. It says nothing about the Three being the same essence. Let's see how you swallow on John 20:17 and then I'll give you another. Perhaps something from Hebrews or Exodus.......I noticed you are now avoiding 1 Cor 8:4-6. lol

We know already the rote one about the Spirit in the form of a dove flying over Jesus' head, that's one of the most tired and played out scriptures that LDS use to justify their faith. Yes, Jesus speaks of the Father as if they're separate. But he also speaks of them being one in purpose. It's all hermeunetics. My point is that your church and other fundamentalist organizations can and will use the Bible (wrongly) as a tool of hatred.

Sophomoric. There are much better examples such as the one I gave you.

I'm reading a book right now that spoke of slave owners telling their slaves that the Bible backed them...but not letting them learn to read so they could see it for themselves.

I have never agreed with that logic or slavery.

Such is your myopic faith, you listen to geratrics in white towers in SLC, and read only what they tell you. Hence, you'll never see reality or the truth. And I feel sorry for you, to be honest.

Actually, my 'leaders' have little to do with apologetic unless they personally engage in it which is rare. My apologetic is superior in everyway to the strawman you have built up.

Not that it would bother you,

I'll mourn your loss, same as any other.

I'm just going to dispair in the telestial kingdom with a bad sex partner for all eternity while you get the glory of being God's chosen, and all becauase of a fantastic story a young man told 200 years ago.

LOL! That's always what it's about for LDS critics. Sex. They're so afraid of losing it they must use it in every filthy way, forgetting the sweeter and deeper sexual relationship God prescribes (Proverbs 5:18-19) Take a dose of 2 Timothy 2:20 will ya?

[_Mephitus]

bcspace, keep your Jesus off my penis. I don't want a sexual relation with anyone i would call my father, even a godly one.

[_bcspace]

bcspace, keep your Jesus off my penis.

Sin breeds fear and guilt.

I don't want a sexual relation with anyone i would call my father, even a godly one.

Uruguay? Interesting juxtaposition of statements. lol

[_Dr. Shades]

Oh, and please take your prejudice back to FAIR. We have enough arrogant TBMs polluting this place.

Perhaps Shades will ban me if you ask him. That might have the desired effect.

[MODERATOR POST: I respectfully request that nobody "de-invite" other posters. Bcspace is just as welcome here as is anyone else.

One thing we're really trying to avoid is the mentality that some posters are "elite" (to the exclusion of others), you know, the mentality that permeates MA&D. To that end, in the eyes of the moderatorial and administrative staff of MormonDiscussions.com, EVERYONE IS EQUAL.

Hopefully you all agree that that's the best way to run a message board.

(Also, a quick FYI, but there's currently NOBODY who is in ANY danger of being banned. All 178 registered users are 100% safe right now.)

Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.]