Backyard Professor wrote:Listen up palsy........see.......this is here is way it iz......... Joe, our buddy Joe, now this here be the prophet see, so lets us havesy a little respekt heres man...... this prophet see, he does his push upsys see.......he's bad, he's bad to thuh bone dudesy. TOUGH, macho sorta wrassler kid here...... Nuff said, fill ins the blanksies and yous have yer story! WOO HOO!
Glad, as always, ta helps ya outs in predicamentations.............
Besties, Kerry
Who the hell is this, Ali G?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Zakuska wrote:Hi all... Not to derail but this was also intresting... .
Zakuska! Welcome, my friend, it is really, really great to see you over here. As you know, I regard you as something of a legend. So: very, very glad to see you around, and hope you enjoy your stay!
Backyard Professor wrote:Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll........... (Jack Benny would be so proud!)
"I'm thinking, I'm thinking!"
Jack Benny is my hero. I can almost play the violin as poorly as he can, but he's got me beat in the skinflint department. In fact, I suspect Jack Benny is the one who took the Gold Plates and Moroni took the stone box back to remove the last shreds of evidence.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Who Knows wrote:He also predicted when the second coming would be, when the translation of the sealed plates would take place, and how they would all coincide. So he was what, 1 for 3 maybe?
Not really. How long is "the Great Tribulation"?
Yes he did "speculate" that that would be by 1891.
But it at least had to be until 1948. When Israel was set back up as a nation.
Heres some more...
I - Where are the plates now?
He - In a cave, where the angel has hidden them up till the time arrives when the plates, which are sealed, shall be translated. God will yet raise up a mighty one, who shall do his work till it is finished and Jesus comes again.
I - Where is that cave?
He - In the state of New York.
I - In the Hill Cumorah?
He - No, but not far from that place. I saw the place where the plates were found, and a great many did so, and it awakened an excitement at the time, because the worst enemies of "Mormonism" stirred up the confusion by telling about the plates which Joseph found, and the "gold Bible" which he was in possession of, so he was in constant danger of being robbed and killed.
Zak - I'm having trouble following what your point is. Would you mind clarifying for me?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Who Knows wrote:Zak - I'm having trouble following what your point is. Would you mind clarifying for me?
My point is... Not even Joseph Smith knew when the second coming was going to be. God blew him off. (ie "I was once praying to know... I was left thus not knowing...") God did the Same thing to the Apostles of old (acts 2:7)
The point here is... David Witmer said that... the temple would be built after the great tribulation. So how long was the great tribulation supposed to last?
Then you have to remember Christ and the cursing of the Fig tree. And then his subsequent prophecy of the Fig tree dropping its leafs and blooming again.
Israel was represented by that cursed fig tree. In AD70 that fig tree quit producing fruit. (Remeber Christ was looking for fruit on the fig tree when he cursed it because it had none) So in 1948... after the world wars that where Prophecied in the D&C took Place... once again the Fig tree is... set back up as a nation and begins to bloom again.
What Im saying is David Whitmer thought the tribulation was a lot shorter than it really was.
So to get the thread back on the right track, in answer to the question "Where is the Stone Box" it has been found on the Hill Camorah.
Thankyou Runtu and Zakusa for locating the reference. No I don't want to get on the wrong side of folks here, so I would like to state that the fact the Stone Box set in Cement of curious workmanship was actually found, located doesn't prove anything. My understanding is that the Gold plates themselves are what is wanted or desired to authenticate everything however if they turned up tommorow I can't really see the church all of a sudden becoming definitively factually true, it would only in my opinion give birth to further polemics. However the fact that the stone box was located does appear to be highly problematic to detractors. If I was on the other side of the fence, I would not be sure how to tackle the problem of the stone box being found. Has there been a credible anti- scholarly explanation for the finding of the box if there has I am unware?
Baurak Ale wrote:So to get the thread back on the right track, in answer to the question "Where is the Stone Box" it has been found on the Hill Camorah.
Uh, no it hasn't. We have an eyewitness statement to the box, just like we have witnesses of the Plates. Most archeologists and scientists want just a little more than a witness.
If I was on the other side of the fence, I would not be sure how to tackle the problem of the stone box being found. Has there been a credible anti- scholarly explanation for the finding of the box if there has I am unware?
The box doesn't exist. That's my explanation. It's not scholarly; it's just my opinion, and it's worth as much as the Book of Mormon witness testimonies. Absolutely nothing. But science has gone along way towards showing that the Book of Mormon is probably not a correct history of early America, and all things connected to the Book of Mormon are suspect until some piece of evidence comes forward. That includes any stone boxes.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
James Bond. The Stone Box being found though a fact, doesn't prove anything, only that there was a stone box I suppose. It was the contents of the box being found that would be good amunition because those items were supposedly taken back to heaven. Many people forget this account it seems and the sceptic would assume Joseph Smith made up the whole Cumorah, Gold Plates and Angels appearing story, which I quite add and affirm is completely possible.
However there was infact a stone box just like he said many many times, whether that box contained what he said it did, the Golden Plates, Urim and Thummim, Liahona, Sword of Laban is another matter but the box itself existed I am afraid. If I didn't believe any of it and was a complete sceptic I would take the position that Joseph Smith was a highly skilled hypnotist like umm. . . Rasputin. I am not sure if this has been explored at any length. However to account for all the witnesses to the plates, also those that went into the cave recessed into the hill camorah and saw the many table loads of plates. I think the use of hypnotism is a better explanation. It appears to me there are just too many witnesses on too many occasions and the witnesses clearly believed what they had witnessed. So interms of defending the other position of fraud I would be infavour of the explanation being hypnotism, I think that's the most credible theory in my mind.
That said however the success of an expert hypnotist is dependant on so many variables while it's a possible explanation from the evidence I would say its unlikely. But the most feasible explanation for the detractor I think. However if you venture down that path one soon finds them self dangerously boarding on the parameters of the Twilight Zone.
("There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone. You are about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!) creepy I think I can hear the theme music in the back ground as I type. . .