grampa75 wrote: Man might think that polygamy of terrible and close to adultery, but the Lord looks upon it as something glorious and beautiful.
Perhaps we might need to change our thinking of the subject and study it out in our hearts to be in the same line of thought of the Lord.
To defer one's thinking to a nonprovable God, and to assume words written long ago are divinely connected and should be assumed true...is NOT thinking. It is the antithesis, it is ...allowing the words and advice, the thinking of others to superceded our own. Your sentence.."Perhaps we might need to change our thinking of the subject and study it out in our hearts to be in the same line of thought of the Lord." illustrates that what you are suggesting is to rely on gut feelings, emotions instead of thinking. If a God exists, he gave man a brain to be used.
Perhaps we might need to change our thinking of the subject and study it out in our hearts to be in the same line of thought of the Lord."
And what do you say to those faithful believing obedient members who study it out in their own mind, with much prayer and fasting and who receive a personal revelation that polygamy is not of God in any form or shape?
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
Adam God is a dilemma. Apologist and most members who know about it want to dismiss it. BY was not clear, he was obscure, he contradicted himself, it was never canon or official and so on.
But the record shows he was pretty clear, taught it quite a few times over the years, claimed Joseph taught it and had it put into the St George temple endowment as part of the lecture at the veil.
So he did teach it. Journals of the day record people thoughts on it and many believed it. He was not opposed on it by any of the twelve save Orson Pratt and Orson opposed it vigorously. When Brigham died it was really dismissed and swept away.
My view is he taught and believed it. If is was false that is problematic because one would think that a prophet ought to at least know who God is and a bit about God's nature.
If he was right then the Church is in apostasy and worshiping the wrong God.
Jason Bourne wrote:Adam God is a dilemma. Apologist and most members who know about it want to dismiss it. BY was not clear, he was obscure, he contradicted himself, it was never canon or official and so on.
But the record shows he was pretty clear, taught it quite a few times over the years, claimed Joseph taught it and had it put into the St George temple endowment as part of the lecture at the veil.
So he did teach it. Journals of the day record people thoughts on it and many believed it. He was not opposed on it by any of the twelve save Orson Pratt and Orson opposed it vigorously. When Brigham died it was really dismissed and swept away.
My view is he taught and believed it. If is was false that is problematic because one would think that a prophet ought to at least know who God is and a bit about God's nature.
If he was right then the Church is in apostasy and worshiping the wrong God.
What a dilemma.
Yep, that's pretty much how I see it. About the only excuse they have is that it never made its way into the canon, but the temple is quasicanonical, is it not? If on the other hand the temple merely reflects mistaken opinion, then what is its value?
Gazelam wrote:From Bruce R. McConkie's talk "Seven Deadly Heresies"
Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.
The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.
We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced.
End of story. I believe Brigham may have been misreading a text in the Kabbalah, and that he got his idea from there, that's if I am reading what he said correctly and what I understand is taught in the Kabbalah texts.
So Bruce says BY is a heretic!! Wow! Wonder if he knew about the lecture at the veil in the St George temple.
Gazelam wrote:From Bruce R. McConkie's talk "Seven Deadly Heresies"
Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.
The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.
We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced.
End of story. I believe Brigham may have been misreading a text in the Kabbalah, and that he got his idea from there, that's if I am reading what he said correctly and what I understand is taught in the Kabbalah texts.
So Bruce says BY is a heretic!! Wow! Wonder if he knew about the lecture at the veil in the St George temple.
Well, I don't believe that Bruce ever admitted publicly that BY taught this. In his addresses on the subject, he was always of the "it's contradictory, and we don't know" frame of mind. But he did admit the heresy was taught in a letter to Eugene England. I'm quite certain that McConkie was aware of the lecture.
Gazelam wrote:On this matter he was wrong. To my knowledge he was right about everything else he taught. The Holy Ghost testifies on these things, and we have had a living Prophet speak out regarding the issue.
I have no ill feelings towards Brigham Young, he just got this thing wrong. It is a minor blemish on an otherwise amazing man.
A minor blemish? Hmmm. Joseph Smith taught it is the first principle of salvation to know who God is as well as his nature. He said it in the Lecture on Faith and the KFD. So BY gets it wrong about who God is. Salvation depends on this. And you think it a minor blemish?
Was he right about having to enter plural marriage to be exalted?
Was he right about blood atonement?
Was he right about blacks being the race of Cain, never getting the priesthood till the millennium and anyone who marries a black person deserving of death?
You said he was right about everything but AG so I was just wondering.
Well, I don't believe that Bruce ever admitted publicly that BY taught this. In his addresses on the subject, he was always of the "it's contradictory, and we don't know" frame of mind. But he did admit the heresy was taught in a letter to Eugene England. I'm quite certain that McConkie was aware of the lecture.
Yes he did tell England the BY was wrong about it.
Jason Bourne wrote:A minor blemish? Hmmm. Joseph Smith taught it is the first principle of salvation to know who God is as well as his nature. He said it in the Lecture on Faith and the KFD. So BY gets it wrong about who God is. Salvation depends on this. And you think it a minor blemish?
Was he right about having to enter plural marriage to be exalted?
Was he right about blood atonement?
Was he right about blacks being the race of Cain, never getting the priesthood till the millennium and anyone who marries a black person deserving of death?
You said he was right about everything but AG so I was just wondering.
Heh. Minor blemishes, indeed. He proclaims the nature of God and insists it be taught in the temple. And the church later declares his teachings heretical. Maybe the Book of Abraham is another minor blemish the church can jettison.
Gazelam wrote:On this matter he was wrong. To my knowledge he was right about everything else he taught. The Holy Ghost testifies on these things, and we have had a living Prophet speak out regarding the issue.
I have no ill feelings towards Brigham Young, he just got this thing wrong. It is a minor blemish on an otherwise amazing man.
How do you know that Brigham was wrong on this issue? Maybe Bruce R. was wrong in saying that Brigham was wrong. After all, Brigham was THE prophet of the church while McConkie was only an apostle. As for the seven deadly heresies talk, to which version are you referring? The version given over the pulpit at BYU differs significantly from the printed version because the brethren forced McConkie to make several changes before publication.