beastie wrote:Ray, you put bigotry in quotation marks. Does that mean that you don't view the institutionalized attitude towards apostates as bigotry?
(by the way, I put "apostates" and "attack" in quotation marks in some posts because they are so variably defined)
Beastie, I do think there is bigotry in many of the institutional statements, but I'm hesitant to say this in an environment like this. You'll notice I hardly ever start a thread here (even when I have time), and my commentary is limited. (Ditto for MAD, though I'd rather start a thread there than here.) Sometimes I think the commentary here is as bad a RFM - too negative, too cynical and sarcastic, and always denigrating Mormonism. Take a cheap shot anytime you can, seems to be the go. I don't mind threads like your analysis of Book of Mormon archaeology and associated problems, and I like discussing the challenges facing Mormonism. I'm afraid to say that all the negativity and constant denigrating of Mormons and Mormonism is just not my "cup of tea", and my empathy for exmos is slowly being reduced to zero. Ironically, the more negativity there is, the less I listen, and the less empathy I feel. If people can't make points without cheap shots, or having this stomach churning need to call Mormonism a fraud, and "old Joe" a charlatan, I would rather not comment. That may be their honest opinion, but it is not mine, and to me it's pointless trying to counter such sentiments.
So much of what is brought up is resurrected from the past. And I don't disagree that sometimes it is relative to modern attitudes, but for the most part it's in the past. Like President Hinckley said, "it's behind us". Does anyone believe him? Polygamy is behind them (in reality that is); the black ban is behind them, and what Mark Petersen said in the 1950s is also behind them. Why does the past continually have to be dredged up?
However, to the point about blame, and demonising people, specifically exmos. I think both parties are to blame. But what I think exmos need to understand is that the church isn't going to change its tenets. It is a restorationist movement with numerous scriptures which urge "crying repentance" to the world, it's a black and white view, "you are with us or against us", you are good or evil. Think of Nephi's "two churches", and Lehi's dream of the river of water, and the mockers in the "great and spacious building". The literary imagery is powerful, even though it creates a divide, and it purposely does so. Even if the Book of Mormon is rejected as history, it's spiritual tenets remain, and it does not only create a divide, but it urges compassion. In many places. "This life is the time to prepare to meet God." In my study of NDEs I continually see this, that life is a time to "improve our lot", but I don't believe the Book of Mormon tells us all. We are all either growing more compassionate and gaining worthwhile knowledge in this life, or we are going backwards, or maybe on the fence for many years. So my own belief system says nothing is stagnant, and God also "remembereth the heathen" (like me), and whatever my weaknesses are, I feel admiration for people who can "improve their lot", and I believe these good LDS values are totally in line with what NDErs say, minus bigotry. Bigtory is not helpful, nor is exclusiveness, but I try to look beyond that. I think bigotry is a symptom of spiritual immaturity. Brigham Young may have said some bigoted things, as you noted above, and he said things that were not at all in harmony with what the Book of Mormon teaches. President Kimball was very different, and anyone who has read his biography cannot fail to be moved by his compassion and love for people. So why don't we focus on people like Spencer W. Kimball, who is much closer to our time, instead of dredging up quotes from Brigham Young? Take the best out of Mormonism, because it has a lot to offer. I believe, with all its faults, and yes even bigotry, it is an inspired and revealed religion. As noted by many, some of the harshest recorded words of Jesus were directed to the religious clans and religious hypocrisy and pride. I believe the Book of Mormon has the very same message. And what it says relative to persecution should be noted by Mormons inclined to bigotry:
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. 2 Ne. 28
9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers. Jacob 3
13 Some were lifted up in pride, and others were exceedingly humble; some did return railing for railing, while others would receive railing and persecution and all manner of afflictions, and would not turn and revile again, but were humble and penitent before God.
14 And thus there became a great inequality in all the land, insomuch that the church began to be broken up; yea, insomuch that in the *thirtieth year the church was broken up in all the land save it were among a few of the Lamanites who were converted unto the true faith; and they would not depart from it, for they were firm, and steadfast, and immovable, willing with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord. 3 Ne.6
Mormons who fall into the trap of "returning railing for railing" are not in tune with the Book of Mormon. So this may contribute to exmo angst and retribution, and anger. But this is NOT what the Book of Mormon teaches. This is NOT "true Mormonism". If you wish to point out those wrong attitudes, then do so, you may have a point. But we also need to remember that there are exmos on a crusade to destroy Mormonism, and let's not mince words about this - they are! They are NOT always provoked, and pre-emptively attack Mormonism, and portray it with the lowest common denominators. To them I say - let it go. Get over it, and it may take years, but let it go. It's not all that bad. I don't need their "warnings", or them telling me how bad my choice in 1975 was. I don't need to be saved by their heroic campaigns against "mis-information". Thirty-two years after joining the Church I can say, overall, it made me a much better person in many ways. The Book of Mormon says "harden not your heart" against the things of God, and I do believe that Mormonism has much that is of God, and though I fail (at this time) to measure up, this is what makes me think positively about Mormonism, overall. But then, this is my "belief system". And I think I can see the difference between good and evil. Mormonism is not a full stop for me, but a valid spiritual path in the journey of life. I don't see any point in posting long diatribes denouncing Mormonism when most of the fault lies "with men". I think it may be valid to denounce self-righteous attitudes, but I also think a good and thorough reading of the Book of Mormon will help us to have proper perspectives in doing so. The "founding text" of Mormonism is still, in my opinion, an inspired guide to human behaviour. We may not measure up, or very few do, but if we don't believe it, or it causes us to be angry, maybe we need to look inwardly first. It is not a matter of blame, but doing some soul-searching. Trying to find balance in assessment is a worthwhile thing, for both "sides".