Observations on Comments on the Mormons

[_Mister Scratch]

I may be mistaken, but if I recall correctly, avenging the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum were in fact part of the temple ceremony at one time. If this was the case, loyalty to that oath may have been the rationale for Joseph F. Smith rather than a direct command from the prophet.

I believe you are referring to what was called the Oath of Vengeance, which was part of the endowment ceremony until 1927.

On the other hand, isn't it D&C 93---or perhaps 94---which sanctions violence against perceived enemies of the Church? (Quinn discusses this somewhere in his Mormon Hierarchy books.)

[_A Light in the Darkness]

Your an idiot. Your forming your outward opinion of suicide bombers just so you and your religion do not appear to be douchebags, which you are.

My "outward" opinion of suicide bombers is a matter of established history. Unfortunately, you are the one whose prejudice against religion is causing you to make up facts that do not exist and deny an established record that does. Again, look up the Tamil Tigers.

[_A Light in the Darkness]

You are equivocating "suicide attacks" with suicide bomber in a very narrow, modern sense. It is a specific technique to carry out a suicide attack. The context of discussion was clearly about the former and reinforced when I talked about "suicide bombing as we know it". Obviously, when you take into account suicide attacks like those in WW II, the argument that they occur because of religion becomes even more dubious.

[_Mr. Coffee]

You are equivocating "suicide attacks" with suicide bomber in a very narrow, modern sense. It is a specific technique to carry out a suicide attack. The context of discussion was clearly about the former and reinforced when I talked about "suicide bombing as we know it". Obviously, when you take into account suicide attacks like those in WW II, the argument that they occur because of religion becomes even more dubious.

In the context of OP, the modern term "suicide bomber" is appropriate as it is a common terrorist tactic. Suicide attacks can cover a wide range of things from headlong charges into heavy gun volleys to screaming banzi and charging a guy with a BAR with just a sword to straping a bomb to your chest.

Suicide Bombings are a specific kind of suicide attack, and is the correct term in context with the rest of the thread. You even used that exact wording, "suicide bomber", and not "suicide attack", jackass. So kindly take your semantical BS and save it for the soft-skulls over at MAD. I ain't buying.


Now, once again, in the context of the thread...

You were saying something about religion not being a signifigant factor in suicide bombings?

[_Enuma Elish]

A couple thoughts on this thread:

Joseph F. Smith was a young man who grew up on the American frontier, having witnessed intense brutality and personal family loss. I dare suspect that even some in this crowd, notwithstanding our modern enlightened perspective, if placed in the actual presence of a person who we believed may have participated in the murder of our father and uncle, might very well seek vengeance.

As one who has studied the life of Joseph F. Smith in some detail, I appreciate the example of personal development Joseph F. Smith provides as one who eventually overcame the weaknesses of his troubled youth through the grace of Christ.

Clearly most people in the world today, both LDS and non-LDS, if they believed that God truly commanded them to act as a suicide bomber would obey the mandate.

My problem with Bachman is that in today’s volatile climate in which Americans are still suffering through the emotional impact of 911, when many US families are enduring the difficult emotional loss of loved ones at the hands of suicide bombers in Iraq, Bachman intentionally capitalized on this pain in an effort to create a negative response to Mormonism on the part of viewers.

As one who opposes the war in Iraq, who knows individuals who have lost loved ones due directly to 911 and the subsequent Satanic war on terror, I simply cannot begin to imagine the type of human being who would extort these sentiments simply to score some points against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

[_Jersey Girl]

The reason the terrorism comment draws ire from faithful saints is because it unfairly associates Mormons with fundamentalist Muslims who currently engage in acts of terrorism. The sleek implication is that a Mormon missionary is a time-bomb ticking away, when the reality of the situation is their belief - while the position of all those who properly love God - is abstract and is not likely to be used to the immoral ends Islamic terrorists do anymore than any other person is likely to engage in terrorism. It transfers the the understandable fear and not-so-understandable bigotry that many feel towards conservative Islam to the Lord's Church.

No, no, and again no. I finished viewing the program this evening. Have you seen it? Tal was discussing the sacrifice that one makes in mission service. He described the conditions that he encountered in Argentina and how extreme they were and THAT'S when he made the comment.

To read some of the comments on this board and on MAD you'd think he pulled the suicide bomber comment out of the blue.

Jersey Girl[/b]

[_Dr. Shades]

Clearly most people in the world today, both LDS and non-LDS, if they believed that God truly commanded them to act as a suicide bomber would obey the mandate.

Which is precisely why religion is such a blight on mankind.

[_Jersey Girl]

Shades,

I'm trying to understand something I saw on another board regarding Tal's statement and another statement that he made via email to a poster. Is there a line of authority that extends from the Prophet to the Mission President?

Jersey Girl

[_Dr. Shades]

Is there a line of authority that extends from the Prophet to the Mission President?

Of course. There's a line of authority that extends from the prophet to every Mormon on earth, Mission President or not.

[_Polygamy Porter]

no, the ultimate factor controlling people to be suicide bombers is hatred of others and RELIGION

Suicide bombing as we know it was pioneered by and at least until very recently most often commited for secular reasons.

Mormon polygamy as we know it was pioneered by Mormon pioneers and at least until very recently most often committed for sexual reasons.

What relevance does that have on today's Mormon?

Hello?

The entire celestial marriage facade came from the principal of polygamous marriage.

Additionally, your lack of understanding of even basic PUBLIC Mormon doctrine is evident. Mormon polyg was not pioneered by the members who followed BY west. D&C 132 states that smith probably knew about the so called revelation of polyg as early as 1831, and Mormon historical documents detail his involvement well before the Mormons became "pioneers".