Ray A gets away with murder on MADB

[_beastie]

Holy cow, man. That's an interesting comparison... too bad we can't start a personal thread over on MAD and ask the TBMs what they think of this parallel. I'd like to know.

He imagines himself as Porter Rockwell.

[_Seven]

I do not believe Ray is genuinely asking "why", because he has been told "why" over, and over, and over, and over.... just like Juliann and all the others have been. They just don't like the answer. They want their own answer to be true - exmormons are "obsessed" (however that is measured) because they are angry, miserable, hateful, AND, deep down, know the church is true. Apparently there is something in that belief that comforts them.

You have it exactly right.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Since that thread is still going I'm going to give my opinion at to why exmos can be angry toward Mormonism.

Ray A (if I'm reading correctly) wonders why exmos are actively still talking about Mormonism. He thinks that since these exmos have reached a new since of spiritual enlightment, they should forget about Mormonism and go fishing (or whatever hobby takes a person's fancy). He just can't seem to grasp why people are upset. So let's use a little analogy for Ray A...

One's religion is kinda like a tree that some people plant at some point in their lives. Often they are assisted in the planting of said tree by their family, other times they find the seeds for sale and plant them by themselves. The ultimate payoff is the fruit....to be achieved throughout the trees' life.....with a special fruit that's everlasting coming when the person (and the tree) die. To nourish the tree, they have to pay for special plant food which is only sold by the guy that originally sold them the tree. They also have to learn special spells to mutter over the tree, which can only be taught by the same guy who originally sold the tree. Some people will take care of their Pet Tree, and will live happy lives, eating their fruit and waiting patiently for that big fruit at the end of the rainbow. They'll happily pay for the plant food and the spells and they'll live their lives....on the other hand...

Some people won't like the fruit, or they don't like paying for the plant food or spells. Some may want a different type of tree with fruit with fewer seeds that are easier to digest. Others don't want a tree, and don't believe in that special guy that makes the seeds grow. Others don't care about any trees and want to watch football instead. Some wonder if the tree is real...or what's the meaning of the tree and it's leaves. The point being....

That for the people who really invest time and money into their tree it takes time pulling the roots out, because the roots go right down to bedrock of that person. For some people it's not as simple as snipping a couple of branches. For some people it takes many years to get all the wood out of their system. For some people they'll never be able to get all the wood out of their system, due to their roots intermingling with another treekeeper, who's perfectly willing to keep their tree growing. Sometimes these co-trees will have a few saplings, who are perfectly willing to start growing their little trees...consequently some people...

Will always be examining the grain of the wood because their co-tree or saplings are growing their own trees...and the former tree keeper is still interested in sticking a spike up the sap pipe of the con artist who sold the original tree, because that guy is still sticking it to his fellow forest tenders for special plant food and tree spells. In conclusion....

It's a forest out their, and only when someone comes through and clear cuts all trees will Bond be happy.

[_beastie]

Good analogy, Bond.

I think LDS who continue to ask this question "but WHY are exmormons ANGRY" are either stupid, disingenuous, or haven't thought about it carefully. The answer is obvious.

[_Seven]

That for the people who really invest time and money into their tree it takes time pulling the roots out, because the roots go right down to bedrock of that person. For some people it's not as simple as snipping a couple of branches. For some people it takes many years to get all the wood out of their system. For some people they'll never be able to get all the wood out of their system, due to their roots intermingling with another treekeeper, who's perfectly willing to keep their tree growing. Sometimes these co-trees will have a few saplings, who are perfectly willing to start growing their little trees...consequently some people...

.

I love this analogy. For myself, I chat online because I enjoy fellowshipping with people who have gone through what I have, and to learn more about my lifelong religion and others. I am sure each person will have their own reason, but the majority of exmos out there don't go online. It's quicker to get information. from a variety of well read people than searching for it among hundreds of books, so I enjoy the internet. I think what drives some of us to stay online for years can be helping that person who suddenly finds out the church deceived them on it's history. We know what it's like and feel genuine compassion for that person. There might be some exmos who want the church destroyed but that has never been a desire for me. I don't even desire to change it anymore. I hope what changes is the character smearing and labeling from those we care about most when we found out the church wasn't what it claimed.

The roots do go very deep. I think it would be so easy to walk away and never talk about Mormonism again but most of my family is TBM so "the church" is a part of most conversations. I try to defend myself against slander from family and the unfair labels that internet TBMs give us.

[_Sam Harris]

I admit to being disappointed in Ray. When I first joined this board, I had some civil interactions with him, and I've never been at odds with him. Sadly, however, he appears to have gone off the deep end.

His extreme rhetoric is really quite silly. I've got to believe that he's smarter than to take literally all the BS he's shovelling out these days.

My thoughts exactly. I've liked Ray in the past although he seemed to be on the edge of a precipice. Now it looks like he's fallen off.

I know what motivates ex-mormons: Sethbag spelled it out best. Now what's motivating Ray, I'd like to know? Let's see if I can read his mind.... Ray knows deep down the church isn't true, and he's just lashing out because of his painful inner demons. Of course he'll deny it, but that only makes it more true. ;)

I have had a few LDS friends talk about "faking it until you make it". Perhaps this is what Ray is doing. If he shuts his eyes tight enough, clicks his heels fast enough, and says "Iknowthischurchistrue" enough times, he'll be back in Zion, and all of his concerns will have vanished. He'll be a "member in good standing", and all will be well.

Ray, let us know when that happens.

[_Sam Harris]

I said I wasn't goint to comment on Ray, but his behaviour is so atrocious that I can't resist.

Ray is the modern day Martin Harris. As you may recall, Martin joined 12 or 13 churches during his lifetime. Five of those were prior to his introduction to Mormonism. After that, he hooked up with six or seven different offshoots of Mormonism. Like Ray, Martin never denied his testimony of the Book of Mormon. He could just never stick with the original Mormon church, though. Also, Martin was heavily into the supernatural, spooks and all, just like Ray.

Martin was destitute in his old age and the saints in Utah paid for his move to Cache County in Northern Utah where he rejoined the church. The play, "The Man Who Knew", is about Martin Harris. Apparently, Martin knew, but just couldn't commit. Sounds alot like Ray. No matter how bad his behavior, the saints will still accept him because Ray cannot deny the Book of Mormon.

Ray A, the volatile, modern day Martin Harris.

Sounds like my Aunt. She finds Jesus twice a week.

[_Trinity]

I have had a few LDS friends talk about "faking it until you make it". Perhaps this is what Ray is doing. If he shuts his eyes tight enough, clicks his heels fast enough, and says "Iknowthischurchistrue" enough times, he'll be back in Zion, and all of his concerns will have vanished. He'll be a "member in good standing", and all will be well.

Ray, let us know when that happens.

I suspect that Mormonism brought Ray some emotional security and a sense of self within that community. He misses that, which is understandable. Sometimes in life you must learn to accept that some things are never going to be so that you can adapt to new things. It is what they call growth. I like ideals myself, but sometimes it is just good to take stock of what you are dealing with and learn to cut your losses.

My comments were censored by the moderator because I began psychoanalyzing Ray by bringing up his exmo past. I felt they were pertinent to understanding Ray's viewpoint. Apparently I shouldn't have personalized it.

[_The Nehor]

Since that thread is still going I'm going to give my opinion at to why exmos can be angry toward Mormonism.

Ray A (if I'm reading correctly) wonders why exmos are actively still talking about Mormonism. He thinks that since these exmos have reached a new since of spiritual enlightment, they should forget about Mormonism and go fishing (or whatever hobby takes a person's fancy). He just can't seem to grasp why people are upset. So let's use a little analogy for Ray A...

One's religion is kinda like a tree that some people plant at some point in their lives. Often they are assisted in the planting of said tree by their family, other times they find the seeds for sale and plant them by themselves. The ultimate payoff is the fruit....to be achieved throughout the trees' life.....with a special fruit that's everlasting coming when the person (and the tree) die. To nourish the tree, they have to pay for special plant food which is only sold by the guy that originally sold them the tree. They also have to learn special spells to mutter over the tree, which can only be taught by the same guy who originally sold the tree. Some people will take care of their Pet Tree, and will live happy lives, eating their fruit and waiting patiently for that big fruit at the end of the rainbow. They'll happily pay for the plant food and the spells and they'll live their lives....on the other hand...

Some people won't like the fruit, or they don't like paying for the plant food or spells. Some may want a different type of tree with fruit with fewer seeds that are easier to digest. Others don't want a tree, and don't believe in that special guy that makes the seeds grow. Others don't care about any trees and want to watch football instead. Some wonder if the tree is real...or what's the meaning of the tree and it's leaves. The point being....

That for the people who really invest time and money into their tree it takes time pulling the roots out, because the roots go right down to bedrock of that person. For some people it's not as simple as snipping a couple of branches. For some people it takes many years to get all the wood out of their system. For some people they'll never be able to get all the wood out of their system, due to their roots intermingling with another treekeeper, who's perfectly willing to keep their tree growing. Sometimes these co-trees will have a few saplings, who are perfectly willing to start growing their little trees...consequently some people...

Will always be examining the grain of the wood because their co-tree or saplings are growing their own trees...and the former tree keeper is still interested in sticking a spike up the sap pipe of the con artist who sold the original tree, because that guy is still sticking it to his fellow forest tenders for special plant food and tree spells. In conclusion....

It's a forest out their, and only when someone comes through and clear cuts all trees will Bond be happy.

That seems a lofty goal. Will you never be happy again?

[_Bond...James Bond]

That seems a lofty goal. Will you never be happy again?

I'm happy....I'd be alot happier if we didn't have stupid things like organized religion standing in the way of humans getting along with each other.