Congratulations to David Bokovoy

[_grayskull]

Reading through the thread on the other board, it appears DCP and BH just still don't get it, while Noel's understanding is perfect.

DCP admits that FARMS works backwards, assume the church is true and then come up with whatever they can to make it fit into the real world. We could pick any number of topics for David to work backwards on and see the same intellect at work. We could put David into Big Foot research, and I have no doubt he may very well come up with the best Big Foot scholarship in the world. David could, if he so desired, very realistically use his talents to be the world's foremost Big Footologist, if that's what he wanted to do, and there would be no need for him to turn off his brain in doing so.

Another way to look at it. Take the super-Lawyer Robert Crocket. It's possible that Robert might one day lose a case. Not by turning off his brain, but because his client is so obviously guilty (or innocent, i don't know what side he argues) that his complete mastery of the rules of evidence and legal loopholes just won't suffice for the victory. In fact, it might seem transparently obvious even to a layman that Crocket's arguments don't even come close to cutting it, but in this hypothetical case, no one could probably do better.

That is in fact why DCP and BH end up arguing with a bunch of my anonymous nobody peers online when it comes to Mormon issues, because they've already been laughed out of the courtroom by their peers.

[Guest]

Here you were speculating that David's work had succeeded not because of its merits, but because of an institutional "hook-up". Or maybe you were kidding?

OK, I see how you could interpret it that way. I didn’t mean to imply that David’s work wasn’t worthy. That wasn’t my point at all. I just thought it was interesting that Brandeis is the only University from the past year where new scholars/students are published – three of them. It isn't beyond the realm of probability that politics play a role in academia. I mean come on, we know it does. David's professor, Marc Brettler has been published at JBL more than any other scholar I can think of, off hand. So speculation it may be, but it isn't baseless speculation. David often refers to how his professor keeps a list of scholars he thinks are good and a list he thinks are bad. It is all about politics. There is no shame is getting a boost from academic referrals, so I don't see how this could be understood as a knock against David. There really is a social pyramid in academia, and the field of biblical studies is no exception.

But above all, I meant to suggest that there are dozens upon dozens of worthy articles that are submitted. The process by which an article is accepted or rejected doesn’t appear to be about accepting or rejecting the more scholarly over the less scholarly. The Journal frequently publishes articles from students or fresh scholars who are just getting their feet wet. It isn’t that rare of a thing as Hamblin suggested. It is pretty cool to be published in a reputable journal, but let’s not go crazy about this and follow Hamblin’s exaggeration. It really says nothing about the accuracy of Bokovoy’s scholarship since I can point several pairs of JBL articles that argue against one another. The editor of the Journal, whom Bokovoy feels is a quack Biblicist, doesn’t agree with David on crucial points regarding the divine council, and this alone proves “scholarly accuracy” is not what makes their decision in accepting or rejecting submitted articles. Yet Dan and Bill always throw up recently minted scholars as if this says something about the accuracy of their arguments. It doesn’t. Again, it appears that variety plays a strong role in determining who is accepted or rejected at JBL.

[_guy sajer]

Thanks to those who have offered a congratulations.

This really is a big deal to both my family and me. I felt that the article was pretty good and knew that I could publish it in an academic journal, but to be quite frank, had serious doubts that JBL would pick it up because it is very difficult to get into (when I rather sheepishly told David Wright that I had sent it in, he grinned and said don't get discouraged by the rejection; I should point out that Dr. Wright had not yet read my article). I just figured I’d shoot for the stars and then move forward following the rejection. To be honest, I’m really quite amazed that it was accepted. Unlike mine, Jeff's and Alan's were part of their dissertations.

Even though recent Brandeis graduates Alan and Jeff have also published articles in JBL, there is not a Brandeis University “hookup” with the journal. Submissions are given with a detachable coversheet so that when they are sent out for intensive peer review, the reviewers have no idea who has written the article. My professors are not in the decision-making process. To provide information to the reviewers concerning the author would compromise the academic integrity of the journal. All of the comments I received addressed me in the third person as simply he/she.

In truth, these JBL publications that have been mentioned (mine included) are merely a reflection of the impressive capabilities of Marc Brettler, Tzvi Abusch, and David Wright (the three professors working with doctoral students at Brandeis University in Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East). I feel that I can honestly make some contributions to the field over the course of my career as a direct result of their tutelage.

It really is an exciting opportunity, thanks again to all who offered kind words of encouragement.

Best,

--David

I don't know you, but I think this is great. Anytime a grad student can score a "hit" in a good journal (I assume this is considered an A, A- journal), it is a tremendous accomplishment. My understanding is that most academics don't publish all that much; it can be hard, depending on the person, the field, and the relevant journals. If I'm looking to hire, I am looking for someone who gives me confidence that he/she will be a successful publisher. Scoring a pub like this should help you significantly on the job market.

When I started out, I had no idea whether I could publish. Getting that first pub, in a top journal to boot, proved to me I could do it, and set me on my way. I hope that something similar, if not better, happens to you.

I would only urge you NOT to spend to much time on apologetics; not because of my feelings about Mormonism, but because, as a young professor, you cannot afford to divide your time. You will need to be laser focused on getting more publications and cementing your reputation.

Again, congratulations. I wish you all the best in your career. In truth, I'm a bit jealous; I miss the academic writing, and I miss the lifestyle. Instead of taking time to golf now when I please, I'm a slave to the billable hour (actually, daily rate in my field). It is exciting starting out, enjoy this period; you'll look back on it with nostalgia later on.

All the best,

Guy

[_Blixa]

I don't know you, but I think this is great. Anytime a grad student can score a "hit" in a good journal (I assume this is considered an A, A- journal), it is a tremendous accomplishment. My understanding is that most academics don't publish all that much; it can be hard, depending on the person, the field, and the relevant journals. If I'm looking to hire, I am looking for someone who gives me confidence that he/she will be a successful publisher. Scoring a pub like this should help you significantly on the job market.

When I started out, I had no idea whether I could publish. Getting that first pub, in a top journal to boot, proved to me I could do it, and set me on my way. I hope that something similar, if not better, happens to you.

I would only urge you NOT to spend to much time on apologetics; not because of my feelings about Mormonism, but because, as a young professor, you cannot afford to divide your time. You will need to be laser focused on getting more publications and cementing your reputation.

Again, congratulations. I wish you all the best in your career. In truth, I'm a bit jealous; I miss the academic writing, and I miss the lifestyle. Instead of taking time to golf now when I please, I'm a slave to the billable hour (actually, daily rate in my field). It is exciting starting out, enjoy this period; you'll look back on it with nostalgia later on.

All the best,

Guy

Let me also add that I academically second every bit of advice Guy just gave. I don't know what the market is like for Religious Studies, but elsewhere in the Humanities its excruciatingly tight and getting ever tighter. Publication can give you an edge, although I've come to think a great deal of it is also luck (in my case, there were around 600 applications for the first tenure track job I got in 1992, and over a 1000 for the second job I landed in 1997).

As for apologetics, I would not take a chance of ruining my odds by doing anything that could make me look like a biased partisan to a hiring committee. As Guy says, after you're hired you're also going to need to focus on getting tenure (fingers crossed) and there will be plenty to keep you busy there: teaching, departmental and college committee work, conferences to present at and further publishing to pursue.

Also I want to say something about what other posters have said about professors helping their students publish. Any professor who takes a student seriously will encourage this and help them by suggesting topics and journals and offering critical feedback on student writing. I try to get my best undergraduates to start publishing as a way to help them have an edge into good graduate programs. Outside of asking a student to review a book for a publication one edits, though, I don't know how much "hands on" manipulation can take place. Its not impossible, but peer review is set up to screen things like this out.

[_dartagnan]

Every field is different. I think in the case of Middle-East studies, one must publish a book before receiving a doctorate. That might explain why there are so many (bad) books on the subject.

[_Blixa]

lol.

[_Runtu]

David at one point approaches the reason why people can respect the scholarly work of LDS apologists and still find their apologetic work lacking:

Though no doubt my initial passion for this subject was sponsored in part by my own theological views, I have tried to maintain a critical approach to the subject.

I would submit that apologists, no matter their skills or background, do not ever "maintain a critical approach to the subject." The basic paradigm that "the church is true" is inviolate in apologetics. So in that respect, The Dude is right that one can detach one's brain simply by not approaching certain subjects with the same critical thinking.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

This really is a big deal to both my family and me. I felt that the article was pretty good and knew that I could publish it in an academic journal, but to be quite frank, had serious doubts that JBL would pick it up because it is very difficult to get into (when I rather sheepishly told David Wright that I had sent it in, he grinned and said don't get discouraged by the rejection; I should point out that Dr. Wright had not yet read my article). I just figured I’d shoot for the stars and then move forward following the rejection. To be honest, I’m really quite amazed that it was accepted. Unlike mine, Jeff's and Alan's were part of their dissertations.

Let me chime in with my hearty congratulations. Well done!

[_Mercury]

Thanks to those who have offered a congratulations.

This really is a big deal to both my family and me. I felt that the article was pretty good and knew that I could publish it in an academic journal, but to be quite frank, had serious doubts that JBL would pick it up because it is very difficult to get into (when I rather sheepishly told David Wright that I had sent it in, he grinned and said don't get discouraged by the rejection; I should point out that Dr. Wright had not yet read my article). I just figured I’d shoot for the stars and then move forward following the rejection. To be honest, I’m really quite amazed that it was accepted. Unlike mine, Jeff's and Alan's were part of their dissertations.

Even though recent Brandeis graduates Alan and Jeff have also published articles in JBL, there is not a Brandeis University “hookup” with the journal. Submissions are given with a detachable coversheet so that when they are sent out for intensive peer review, the reviewers have no idea who has written the article. My professors are not in the decision-making process. To provide information to the reviewers concerning the author would compromise the academic integrity of the journal. All of the comments I received addressed me in the third person as simply he/she.

In truth, these JBL publications that have been mentioned (mine included) are merely a reflection of the impressive capabilities of Marc Brettler, Tzvi Abusch, and David Wright (the three professors working with doctoral students at Brandeis University in Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East). I feel that I can honestly make some contributions to the field over the course of my career as a direct result of their tutelage.

It really is an exciting opportunity, thanks again to all who offered kind words of encouragement.

Best,

--David

David, given your experience with the peer review process why do you feel that Mormon apologetics do not get the warm reception received by other scholarly works?

Furthermore do you see Mormon apologetics to be easily discredited because of its lack of peer reviewed material supporting Mormonism?

Specifically how can one take Mormon apologetics seriously and at the same time participate in a diametrically opposed fashion and still call apologetics scholarship?

You might not call it scholarship but what of your colleagues who find FARMS to be "scholarly" instead of plain ole hokum?

Looking forward to your answer.

[_rcrocket]

fIn fact, it might seem transparently obvious even to a layman that Crocket's arguments don't even come close to cutting it, but in this hypothetical case, no one could probably do better.

I would be pleased to respond to specifics. I have been told by dozens of believers and nonbelievers alike that my research contributed much new information, but I can understand there will never be closure on the MMM.



rcrocket