The odd thing was that it was Missionary Preparation class. We hardly ever talked about missionary work but focused on such important things as big lizards and the medicinal qualities of cayenne pepper. Really a bizarre class. My cousin, who was in the class with me, leaned over one day during one of the professor's monologues and said, "I can't believe we paid tuition for this."
Well at least you got the stories out of the tuition. That's all I got out of my ex-fiance :)
Reminds me of the class I paid for on Judaism. We had to buy the Professor's book and spent the entire class discussing whether the injunction to Adam was responsible for a perceived lack of respect for creation by Judeo-Christians. His book was a hack-piece of irrelevant essays. BOOOORING!!!!
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Coggins7 wrote:The earth is 6,000 years old from the fall of Adam, and that part of the earth's temporal existence is the only part of it that really concerns LDS doctrine regarding salvation and the mortal probation.
But LDS doctrine says that there was no death until the fall of Adam. How does that square with the 4.5 billion year-old earth paradigm?
No death? The earth was terrestrial and bodies were after a terrestrial order and wouldn't die through old age and natural causes. But, all kinds of life could be killed by a mountain falling on it or by some other kind of death blow. The natural order of the terrestrial earth was life forever because the body was programmed to live forever. But even the earthly terrestrial body could be cut in two because it wasn't glorified in a resurrected state.
The terrestrial animal kingdom was in a state of peace and could live in that state forever unless certain elements overcame them. So, with that said, natural death entered the world via Adam. It was then that the body became telestial and would naturally expire after a set amount of time.
The amount of life present in the fossil record, if all alive at one time, would cover the surface of the earth many, many folds over. There was no death before the fall, of course, but Church doctrine does not demand one interpret this as carnal death.
Paul Osborne wrote:No death? The earth was terrestrial and bodies were after a terrestrial order and wouldn't die through old age and natural causes. But, all kinds of life could be killed by a mountain falling on it or by some other kind of death blow. The natural order of the terrestrial earth was life forever because the body was programmed to live forever. But even the earthly terrestrial body could be cut in two because it wasn't glorified in a resurrected state.
Unfortunately Paul, the fossil record is much more definite than that. So is what is necessary for the mechanisms of natural selection. Animals and plants died for all the very same reasons that they die now- including old age, disease and being eaten. You are depending on speculative fantasy and motivated soley by the desire to make Mormon doctrine somehow fit after all.
You could have spent your life learning real science and thus gaining real knowledge instead of chasing after occult supernatural fantasies. Quite sad.
Paul, you will not be a superman with an indestructible body in any next life. Your emotion filled prophetic pronouncements can't stave of the inevitability of plain old death.
It's true that I put my faith in prophets and scripture. I can't deny that. You put your faith in scientific measurements, instruments, and calculations made by man.
Now, if it is indeed true that God and angels appeared to the prophet Joseph Smith, you can kiss your faith goodbye.
I don't believe carbon dating is a valid test in all circumstances in determining the age of things from all periods of earth's history.
It's true that I put my faith in prophets and scripture. I can't deny that. You put your faith in scientific measurements, instruments, and calculations made by man.
Now, if it is indeed true that God and angels appeared to the prophet Joseph Smith, you can kiss your faith goodbye.
I don't believe carbon dating is a valid test in all circumstances in determining the age of things from all periods of earth's history.
Paul O
And some of us don't believe that God and angels appeared to Joseph Smith. What's your point, Paul?
It's true that I put my faith in prophets and scripture. I can't deny that. You put your faith in scientific measurements, instruments, and calculations made by man.
Paul O
What you rely on is also created by men--not through measurments and reason but by fantasy.
I don't believe carbon dating is a valid test in all circumstances in determining the age of things from all periods of earth's history.
And your basis for this is what?
The validity of carbon dating is well established by correlation with many other independent method and is consistent with physics. Its validity is unaffected by what you believe. "Belief" isn't what counts.
I admit that, as a believer, I still believed in evolution. I guess I compartmentalized information in my brain, although I do remember wondering about "Adam, the first man". How did that come about? Were his parents "not man"? It's one of those things I just didn't allow myself to think too closely about, because the house of cards would all come tumbling down.
(by the way, nehor, my OP was a spoof of the type of threads I see often on MAD, where a poster links some information and acts as if it provides support for the Book of Mormon, even when it is in the entirely wrong timer period or place)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Paul Osborne wrote:I don't believe carbon dating is a valid test in all circumstances in determining the age of things from all periods of earth's history.
Carbon dating is only useful within certain time frames, so this statement is true. There are numerous, independent yet mutually consistent methods of dating materials. But even if this weren't true, the insanely large multitude of reasons to think that corporeal death occured before 6000 years go does not depend on it. Again, there is enough remains of once living things available in the fossil record to exceed the surface area of the earth. This isn't a problem for our faith like fundamentalist antimormons seek to make it out to be because our faith does not demand such a position. But as you and I both demonstrate, we are free to hold differing views on the matter according to the dictates of our study and prayerful guidance.
It's true that I put my faith in prophets and scripture. I can't deny that. You put your faith in scientific measurements, instruments, and calculations made by man.
Paul O
What you rely on is also created by men--not through measurments and reason but by fantasy.
I.E. Prophets and scriptures are fantasy devoid of reason. Sensing an easy mark, you might say, "And your basis for that is what?" So let me return the question to you.
Your views are just as much a fringe minority among the intellectual history of the entire world as young earth creationism is among scientists today. If I were like you, I suppose you should have my pity for how you've squandered your spiritual potential, but I think you deserve more than that. You could've spent your life studying thoughtful religion and seeking the good through God, but instead fell for the warped representations of naïve atheists setting fire to straw. But I don't think it is too late. Modifying a famous Monty Python sketch: You're not dead yet.