Mormon Misogyny

[_why me]

I think KimberlyAnn has a problem with sterotypes and over generalizations. She is infamous for such things. These kind of sterotypes fly very well on a postmo board but heaven forbid if any LDS person would post a disagreement with her on that postmo board. He or she would immediately be surrounded by postmo posters looking for a brawl. It would be a gang attack to be sure.

You see KimberlyAnn you post posts that seem to have much generalizations within them. But I also believe that you are aware that LDS church is a world wide church and as such your sterotypes and generalizations do not fly very well. The LDS church and the catholic church are perhaps the last holdouts in denying women the priesthood and I suppose both faiths have good reasons for doing so. Both faiths come from a basis of truth as claimed by them. And this would make perfect sense since many protestant sects broke ranks with these two faiths.

Sorry that the LDS church cannot accomodate you. But such are god's ways that in a faith that claims truth from god, the way of the world should have no say in the matter unless god, himself desires such a change. And that hasn't happened yet. But your generalizations about the LDS church are over the top.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz...

Ahhh that letter made me seriously cry!

It represents the lives of so many women in the church.

They put on a smiling face, don't complain, hold their head high, pretend all is well, while inside their hearts are suffering, their spirits dying.

If they mention their struggle they are told to pray harder, go to the temple, get a priesthood blessing, stop being so selfish, Satan is influencing them, their hearts are too hard... whatever.

:-(

~dancer~

[_why me]

When I was about 16, I stopped going to church. Why? One reason was that I felt the Mormon church wanted to limit my potential and confine me to only one part of life. Over and over again I was told not to worry about education. "You'll study yourself right out of a husband!" "If you want to be an English professor, you can marry one and help him in his work!"

Also, I used to watch the mentally handicapped brother of a friend of mine bang his head against the chapel wall while he was sitting in front with the aaronic priesthood blessing the sacrament. He'd bang his head and mumble and drool, but because he was a man and could "hold the priesthood," "the gospel" placed him in spiritual and temporal authority over me.

I wanted more respect than that.

I have looked at FMH, barrel--incidently, there is an article on them in this month's Bust magazine. I find most of the viewpoints I've read there to be confused, contorted attempts to make a round peg fit in a square hole. Heavenly Mother notwithstanding, the Proclamation on the Family established a line that could only accomodate an essentialist and moralizing feminism: in other words, a coservative feminism only interested in reforming a few aspects of current social arrangements (unsurprisingly, those that would benefit already privileged echelons of females) rather than their transformation for the good of all.

Blixa, you reminded me of a fairly recent quote of Hinckley's. Here's what he had to say to the men: "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own?"

What exactly does Hinckley think is wrong with a woman being more educated than her husband? Could it be that she'd be too uppity to happily remain in a subservient role? Hmmm...

KA - More educated than her husband.

According to recent research girls and young women are excelling in school and in the university. Young men are not doing so well in school and university life. And many young men may opt out of college and school life. Perhaps this is what he was referring to: Young men, get an education! Do you see the point?

[_barrelomonkeys]

The LDS church and the catholic church are perhaps the last holdouts in denying women the priesthood and I suppose both faiths have good reasons for doing so. Both faiths come from a basis of truth as claimed by them. And this would make perfect sense since many protestant sects broke ranks with these two faiths.

There are quite a few Churches about this um parts that deny women any equality. There's Church of Christ a block down from my home where the women shouldn't cut their hair and they sit at the back of the Church. It's in protestant denominations as well.

[_The Nehor]

Blixa, you reminded me of a fairly recent quote of Hinckley's. Here's what he had to say to the men: "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own?"

What exactly does Hinckley think is wrong with a woman being more educated than her husband? Could it be that she'd be too uppity to happily remain in a subservient role? Hmmm...

KA - More educated than her husband.

My thoughts on this statement are a little different. In my experience most successful marriages contain people of similar educational accomplishment. The problem President Hinckley was addressing was that too many young men aren't getting educated and it's hard to be married to someone much, much more educated or much, much less.

Exceptions surely exist but I had an experience of dating a girl who was very ignorant and not very bright. I fell in love with her. I broke it off when I realized we had no real future. I was worried that what started as bemused amusement at her would probably turn into a superiority complex and possibly even contempt. Luckily I'm one of those rare guys who falls in love with a mind first usually (not sure what happened with her...oh yeah, hotness) and I've tried to keep that up. I tend to fall in love with geeky minds who have real wit and can talk for at least 5 minutes on most topics without faking it.

Though I have a hard time imagining a woman much, much smarter and educated than me (don't worry, not sexist, I have a hard time imagining a guy like that either) if there were I don't think she'd be happy with me or me with her. It's more that equally yoked thing. I think President Hinckley was saying that you'll have a wider pick of girls that will have you if you exercise your mind and make it stronger and sharper than it is.

I think this is a mountain out of molehill. Plus there are guys quite happy to marry girls more accomplished than them. My friend just married a doctor. She refers to herself jokingly as his sugarmama. She hasn't quite called him a boytoy yet but that will come ;)

[_Doctor Steuss]

Well, I suspect if you want a woman who's intellect is far superior to your own that you're going to be looking for quite a while, DS. Perhaps those that you've found are too dense to appreciate your sharp wit?

Perhaps. Or perhaps you should stop reading my posts while drunk. (they tend to be much less witty when sober)… ;-)

You're not finding your dates at Stake Singles Dances are you?

Nah. Stake Singles Dances have lighting that doesn't serve my purposes very well. I prefer dark alleys and retirement homes.

KA - Subservient or Dominant depending on my mood.

DS - Dominant when the "safety word" has been well established beforehand.

(as long as you leave the toilet seat up that is)

Deal breaker. ; )

*Sigh* You would make a terrible disciple of the Steussites. We’re going to have to increase your tithes.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor---You are definitely one of the "good guys". This is why you are one of my "boy toys" in the Goddess villa. LOL

I agree that this guy was a complete jerk and should have realized what the hell was going on with his wife in his own household. I'm by no means giving him a "pass". I think that men outside the Church who have wives who choose to be homemakers are guilty of these types of behaviors as well.

However, I'm sure that you can't deny that Church culture lends itself to this type of behavior. Like you, I'm always amazed when I see people who blindly fall into this, but it happens. And what I object to, is that these types of behaviors are outwardly rewarded and revered within LDS culture. Should they be? Of course not! People should think for themselves. And, yes, there is much lip service given to "no success is greater than success in the home". BUT---Within LDS culture, let's take a long hard look at reality.

Women who have large families are celebrated and highlighted in Relief Society. Usually these same women with multiple small kids have husbands who are called to the Bishopric, Stake Presidencies, High Council, etc. These men are NEVER home between their Church and the job responsibilities. There are only 24 hours in a day! Even the "good guys" can get caught up in this without realizing what's happening!

Thanks Liz, working on graduating from "boy toy" to God "boy toy" so it'll be more equal ;)

One more reason I hope I'm never a Bishop though the best of the "good guys" pull it off well. They get their responsibilities done and go home. When my father was called as Bishop he was told to expect to give most of the Sabbath and two nights a week to God barring special circumstances. Any more than that on a regular basis and you're denying your family who needs you more. I intend to take that advice if ever called.

[_Yoda]

Thanks Liz, working on graduating from "boy toy" to God "boy toy" so it'll be more equal ;)

LOL! You don't have too many more posts to go!

Don't worry, Nehor, rank or no rank, you'll always be a "God boy toy" in my book! ;)

[_truth dancer]

Hi Nehor...

My thoughts on this statement are a little different. In my experience most successful marriages contain people of similar educational accomplishment. The problem President Hinckley was addressing was that too many young men aren't getting educated and it's hard to be married to someone much, much more educated or much, much less.

Ahhh here we go again, changing GHB's words to fit what one wants them to say rather than what they said. ;-)

Please remember that until recently women could hardly even get an education.... I mean seriously you don't think there was a huge divide between the general education of men and women for the past six thousand years or so?

With the exception of the second wives of GAs, how many of of the GAs have wives with equal education?

Seriously Nehor.... LOL!

~dancer~

[_The Nehor]

Hi Nehor...

My thoughts on this statement are a little different. In my experience most successful marriages contain people of similar educational accomplishment. The problem President Hinckley was addressing was that too many young men aren't getting educated and it's hard to be married to someone much, much more educated or much, much less.

Ahhh here we go again, changing GHB's words to fit what one wants them to say rather than what they said. ;-)

Please remember that until recently women could hardly even get an education.... I mean seriously you don't think there was a huge divide between the general education of men and women for the past six thousand years or so?

With the exception of the second wives of GAs, how many of of the GAs have wives with equal education?

Seriously Nehor.... LOL!

~dancer~

There is though a growing divide now. More women are getting educated than men and the gap is wider in the LDS Church than in the general public. It's a fair warning to the guys.