The Responsibility of Church Leaders....

[_harmony]

The LDS do not make a claim for the inerrancy of any Scripture.

Then let's get rid of Sec 132 entirely. It's obviously 'way off base.

[_gramps]

Hi Nehor...

This sounds like bragging but I found out much of what you seem to think people should know. I learned it because I wanted to know. I bought books, I read articles, I researched in libraries. Those who want knowledge will find it. Those who don't won't. Some of them may not need it. For some reason I do. This life is definitely not an intelligence test being given by God or we'd all be royally screwed but maybe I have a calling or some trial that this information will help me with.

The problem is, most folks believe they do know.

They think the story they are taught is true. They are bearing their testimony about something clearly untrue and the leaders know it!

If you thought you understood something what is it you would go searching for? Why search out something in a library if you think you are being taught a truth in Sunday School?

I struggle with the idea that leaders KNOW members are misinformed because of the church and yet don't help and heal the situation.

~dancer~

Great point! Well, the leaders are now reaping what they have sown, so to speak. It's hard to feel sorry for them, that's for sure.

[_Dr. Shades]

I struggle with the idea that leaders KNOW members are misinformed because of the church and yet don't help and heal the situation.

What on earth is there to struggle with? That's been the leaders' modus operandi from the very beginning!

[_barrelomonkeys]

I hope this isn't a hijack. Should I start a new thread? If LDS can say that not all of the Bible is inerrant do they believe the Book of Mormon is inerrant? I see these threads all the time discussing the Book of Mormon and trying to defend what it says.... I don't understand this. Do LDS believe the Bible is inerrant too?

The LDS do not make a claim for the inerrancy of any Scripture.

Well I am so confused! Why the constant need to defend the scripture as being accurate? I do NOT understand!

What am I missing?

[_harmony]

I struggle with the idea that leaders KNOW members are misinformed because of the church and yet don't help and heal the situation.

What on earth is there to struggle with? That's been the leaders' modus operandi from the very beginning!

Actually, that's the whole point of the church: keep the members. What they do, the lengths they go to, to keep the members is astonishing.

[_barrelomonkeys]

TBMs believe in a literal Adam and Eve. That is why some believe they can even trace their geneology back to
Adam. Adam and Eve are literal, historical figures (this is in the temple ceremonies).

Wow! I was not aware of this. From posting on MAD I thought most LDS did not believe in a literal garden of eden. I'm really surprised by this.

The Book of Mormon is taught as completely true and correct because Joseph Smith didn't translate it as a conventional translator does working to transfer a text from one language to another, but he received word-for-word revelation of what was supposedly written on the plates. He did this by looking at a stone in a hat, not by looking at the plates. The alleged plates were not even supposed to be in the room oft times while he was "translating" (always behind a curtain which separated him and those who wrote down the phrases he called out). Or at least this is the way the process is described in faithful literature, who knows how the thing was really written.

This is why apologists have to prove that there aren't mistakes in it.

One recent avenue of this effort is to re-describe the translation process and suggest that it was slighlty more akin to conventional transation. But this is only one apologetic "theory" and is not the way things have been traditionally thought of, nor the way that the average TBM conceives of it.

Well it appears that is a problem.

[_Dr. Shades]

Wow! I was not aware of this. From posting on MAD I thought most LDS did not believe in a literal garden of eden. I'm really surprised by this.

Let's back up a little. The people on MAD are what's called "Internet Mormons." They differ quite vastly from the "Chapel Mormons" which make up at least 95% of the rest of Mormondom.

To better get a grasp of the situation, I recommend reading Internet Mormons vs. Chapel Mormons before your next visit to MAD.

[_Jason Bourne]

I find myself impatient sometimes when I read some threads. Good points, Truth Dancer.

I taught Gospel Doctrine off and on for the past 23 years. First at BYU after the mission, inbetween EQ, Young men's
and SS pres etc. It was my favorite job next to being with my boys in young men. The last stint was about 2 1/2 years
before being asked to teach the 15/16 years olds for several months. It was something that brought me a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction. I was teaching Church History when I asked to be released.

I have always been disappointed with the uninspired, faith destroying, platitudical way the teaching manuals have been written - in almost every position I've taught in.

There is a directive in all manuals that exhorts teachers to #1 teach by the spirit but to #2 stick to the curiculum without adding to it from anything more than the standard works and the Ensign.

If I were teaching the Book of Mormon, I would study the chapters in the reading assignment and toss the manual - always. I taught it as if it were true. I had no reason at that time to think otherwise. My classes were well attended, and many participated after recognizing the disarming nature of my teaching style. I never touched on geography, the real world value of a stupid senum or expected everyone to get the time line down. I taught life lessons. It pleased me that many would remain sitting just to enjoy the enviroment created following the closing prayer. I felt well connected with most everyone in the class regardless of the size.

I never heard of the Limited Geography or other theories.

So long as there are EQ lesson manuals entitled "Teachings of the Prophet Brigham Young", where they have eliminated the plural of wife in every instant, the membership will just have to stumble upon the truth by themselves - and then get angry like I did.

I don't particularly predict a mass exodus, but I think the leadership is now troubled by those that have opted out that have yet to committ adultery, smoke a joint or vote for a democrat.

It will be interesting what kind of damage control they will concoct over the next few years - since they will never tell the truth.

anyway, my .02

I cannot find much to disagree about here.

[_truth dancer]

What on earth is there to struggle with? That's been the leaders' modus operandi from the very beginning!

Yeah Shades, you are correct. :-(

I just felt so badly seeing this woman who I like, stand up in front of everyone, crying, sharing her testimony of that which is clearly wrong... knowing the church has taught her incorrectly and is purposely NOT helping.

It is one thing if you believe what is being taught, even if it is incorrect, but KNOWING what is being taught is wrong, and not coming forward with truth is a whole other issue.

It is shameful!

~dancer~

[_Some Schmo]

What on earth is there to struggle with? That's been the leaders' modus operandi from the very beginning!

Yeah Shades, you are correct. :-(

I just felt so badly seeing this woman who I like, stand up in front of everyone, crying, sharing her testimony of that which is clearly wrong... knowing the church has taught her incorrectly and is purposely NOT helping.

It is one thing if you believe what is being taught, even if it is incorrect, but KNOWING what is being taught is wrong, and not coming forward with truth is a whole other issue.

It is shameful!

~dancer~

When have church leaders ever been concerned with the truth... or right and wrong, for that matter?

It took years for the tobacco companies to acknowledge that smoking was bad for you. This is what your question reminds me of: How can they sell cigarettes when they know it's so bad for you?

All church leaders really care about are active, full tithe payers. Upon hearing your story, they would likely think something rationalizing like, "Oh, she sounds like she's so full of the spirit. Why mess with that?" (Translation: Sucker!)

Indeed, why mess with that? Sounds like she'll be paying tithing for many years to come.