Was Emma an abused wife?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Polygamy Porter wrote:You seem quite capable of taking care of yourself, so no I am not concerned about you.


You're right about that. No matter what happens in life I will meet it head on. If you get into my cab and insult me, I will kick your ass out, as I have done many times. You treat me civilly, and I will treat you civily. If you are kind to me, I will be kind to you. You accuse me, I will accuse you. No matter what life brings I will take it on and eventually overcome.
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

Ray A wrote:
Polygamy Porter wrote:You seem quite capable of taking care of yourself, so no I am not concerned about you.


You're right about that. No matter what happens in life I will meet it head on. If you get into my cab and insult me, I will kick your ass out, as I have done many times. You treat me civilly, and I will treat you civily. If you are kind to me, I will be kind to you. You accuse me, I will accuse you. No matter what life brings I will take it on and eventually overcome.


So Ray, remember when you were going to write that book? What ever became of it? Why, im sure you and your editor are finalizing the critics copy right now and your ready to make the first large scale printing. Or you never wrote the book and your a loser.

I'm sure you are meeting it Head On (Apply Directly to the forehead!).
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mercury wrote:So Ray, remember when you were going to write that book? What ever became of it? Why, I'm sure you and your editor are finalizing the critics copy right now and your ready to make the first large scale printing. Or you never wrote the book and your a loser.

I'm sure you are meeting it Head On (Apply Directly to the forehead!).


I am a loser? Have you worked in factories and brickyards hauling 50 pound bricks every ten seconds, and doing this for two years, when men six foot tall run away from this work when they see what's involved? Have you worked 6 days a week for 16 years, or put in 16 hour days for five years? Have you raised five children over 28 years? Have you experienced bankruptcy because of divorce, and paid back $33,000 in five years, because of your honour, working those hours to pay it back while you can't buy any luxuries for yourself, while sometimes going without proper food just before payday and scratching around your car to find coins just to buy a hamburger, and while paying nearly $700 a month in child support? Have you ever lost everything you own, including your children for six months? Have you ever come home to see your house emptied of everything you worked for for 22 years, and you have to start all over by buying a simple $20 toaster, and working your way up from there, to eventually buying a car, paying it all off in five years (along with the other debts) and re-salvaging your life? Have you worked yourself to the bone until you suffer burnout, until your body aches and you can't go anymore? Will you be able to endure all of this until you're 52 - and you still have to keep going by working 50-55 hour weeks while enduring sarcasm and sometimes verbal abuse from people, being robbed, yet keeping going? Can you endure the thought that you will have to do this until you're 70 or 80, or however long you live, because all your retirement funds have dried up because of divorce? Have you ever watched your wife/ex-wife die an agonising death right in front of her children, and seen them screaming and crying, then having to console them, and raise a traumatised 15 year old on your own? Have you ever had to deal with this family trauma?

Yes, like me you've suffered alienation from Church, family, and friends, and been called names, but what you haven't done is have the courage to look positively at all of your bad experiences, and turn them into good ones, rather then forever whining, bitching, and moaning about your lot in life and blaming others.

Yes, Merc, I'm a loser. And you know nothing about life.
_Polygamy Porter
_Emeritus
Posts: 2204
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:04 am

Post by _Polygamy Porter »

With services like LuLu.comthere is no excuse for not publishing a book, if that is your goal.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Polygamy Porter wrote:With services like LuLu.comthere is no excuse for not publishing a book, if that is your goal.


I'm still on my "journey" with Mormonism. If I had written a book in 1987 I likely would have disowned it by now, just like Tolstoy (not that I'm comparing myself to him) disowned his early books, even War and Peace. I will do what I have to do when the time and circumstances are right, and when I know within my gut it's right, just like my brother, who only published his first best-seller when he was 67 years old, and when the burdens of family were off his hands. He researched this subject for ten years before publishing, and spent a lifetime reading up on the subject. Today he's an acknowledged authority on the subject, but it don't come easy.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

When I read Mormon Enigma my heart just broke for Emma Hale Smith.

If the book is accurate then I think Joseph's behavior was abusive to his wife.
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

Jason Bourne wrote:When I read Mormon Enigma my heart just broke for Emma Hale Smith.

If the book is accurate then I think Joseph's behavior was abusive to his wife.


I as well. What specifically gave you this impression Jason?
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

Ray A wrote:Yes, Merc, I'm a loser. And you know nothing about life.


Actually Ray, who knows more about life? Those who never are put in a situation where hard labor is necessary or those who, like Sisyphus, keep having to push the boulder to the top of the hill again and again? I see you are still pushing that boulder. Don't worry, its going to roll down the hill again pretty soon and you can start all over again.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

What does one call it when a man...

"Marries" (gets concubines), the wives of other men without telling his wife?

Tells girls and women that God told him to marry them without telling his wife?

Sleeps with his nanny behind his wife's back?

Sleeps/marries his wive's best friends without his wife's knowledge?

Demands his wife allow him to sleep with other women by claiming God told him to marry them?

Threaten his wife with destruction in the name of God if she did not agree with him sleeping with other women?

Spends what little free time he has engaging in intimate relationships with other women rather than being a husband and father?

I do not know how anyone can believe for one minute Joseph Smith was not an abusive husband. I have no reason to believe he was physically violent with Emma, but abusive? Absolutely! Many women will tell you that emotional abuse is worse than physical abuse... the scars are deeper, the pain nearly unbearable.

What is almost more sick than the behavior of Joseph Smith toward Emma and other women, is the justification that goes on regarding the behavior.

Why guys will honor Joseph Smith and rationalize his cruel behavior is beyond me... :-(

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mercury wrote:Actually Ray, who knows more about life? Those who never are put in a situation where hard labor is necessary or those who, like Sisyphus, keep having to push the boulder to the top of the hill again and again? I see you are still pushing that boulder. Don't worry, its going to roll down the hill again pretty soon and you can start all over again.


Those "put in a situation where hard labour is necessary" are the backbone of society. You can't survive without us. Your low view of "labourers" is quite a contrast to DCP's views. Nothing surprising there.
Post Reply