The Depressing Plan of Salvation

[_Hoops]

Who believes that nobody can be with their families?

The same people who believe that marriage lasts "until death do us part." I've actually met them.

I have to admit, candidly, that I find this really weird. I've always thought of the notion of eternal families, and always heard it presented, as good news on top of what people already tended to believe about individual immortality, not as a subtraction from what people already believed. Mainstream Christians already believed that we would continue to exist as individual angels in the life to come, without special relationships to people who had once been members of our earthly family. Mormonism came to take nothing away from the idea of continued individual existence, but to add to it the (to me, very good news) that earthly kin-relationships would be made eternal. That's not negative. It's wonderfully positive.

And wonderfully inaccurate. Who do you know believes we exist as angels? And the ev perspective, as I understand it, is that while there are no familial relationships with our earthly families, that does not preclude recognizing and having a significant relationship with our earthly families in the next life. In addition, how about the ev perspective that all those in the after life will be recognized as brothers and sisters - in perfect harmony. That is not a question, a statement.

[_Tarski]

I never liked it. While the "chosen" people will get to be together forever, the rest of humankind will be separated for eternity from loved ones and family... it just doesn't feel very holy to me.~dancer!

Yeh, when you put it that way, it sounds like a made up threat invented but someone.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Who believes that nobody can be with their families?

The same people who believe that marriage lasts "until death do us part." I've actually met them.

I have to admit, candidly, that I find this really weird. I've always thought of the notion of eternal families, and always heard it presented as, good news on top of what people already tended to believe about individual immortality, not as a subtraction from what people already believed. Mainstream Christians already believed that we would continue to exist as individual angels in the life to come, without special relationships to people who had once been members of our earthly family. Mormonism came to take nothing away from the idea of continued individual existence, but to add to it the (to me, very good news) that earthly kin-relationships would be made eternal. That's not negative. It's wonderfully positive.

Because they don't believe that marriage bonds don't prevail in heaven doesn't mean they they believe that nobody can be with their families. It's not weird that you would think so, though. It's a typical Mormon misconception.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Who believes that nobody can be with their families?

The same people who believe that marriage lasts "until death do us part." I've actually met them.

I have to admit, candidly, that I find this really weird. I've always thought of the notion of eternal families, and always heard it presented as, good news on top of what people already tended to believe about individual immortality, not as a subtraction from what people already believed. Mainstream Christians already believed that we would continue to exist as individual angels in the life to come, without special relationships to people who had once been members of our earthly family. Mormonism came to take nothing away from the idea of continued individual existence, but to add to it the (to me, very good news) that earthly kin-relationships would be made eternal. That's not negative. It's wonderfully positive.

Because they don't believe that marriage bonds don't prevail in heaven doesn't mean they they believe that nobody can be with their families. It's not weird that you would think so, though. It's a typical Mormon misconception.

Most mainstream Christians I meet do believe marriage ends at death but all loved ones will reunite in heaven.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Who believes that nobody can be with their families?

The same people who believe that marriage lasts "until death do us part." I've actually met them.

I have to admit, candidly, that I find this discussion here really weird. I've always thought of the notion of eternal families, and always heard it presented, as good news on top of what people already tended to believe about individual immortality, not as a subtraction from what people already believed. Mainstream Christians already believed that we would continue to exist as individual angels in the life to come, without special relationships to people who had once been members of our earthly family. Mormonism came to take nothing away from the idea of continued individual existence, but to add to it the (to me, very good news) that earthly kin-relationships would be made eternal. That's not negative. It's wonderfully positive.

Actually, most Christians I know believe they WILL be with and know their families in the afterlife; that everyone will be together, blissfully, in one big heaven, no class separations. There will not be married couples, or anyone living polygamously and working to populate new planets, but people will be happy and together with their families. I think the Mormon heaven sounds awful in comparison!

KA

[_Daniel Peterson]

I didn't know the term, "Plan of Salvation" but I was well aware as a child that I would most certainly NOT be with my family. It was extremely distressing for me.

Well, as I say, reactions are curious. I never knew any such thing.

While the "chosen" people will get to be together forever, the rest of humankind will be separated for eternity from loved ones and family... it just doesn't feel very holy to me.

As I say, I find this conversation quite bizarre. Standard Christian doctrine, historically, has been that all of humankind will be separated from loved ones and family forever -- either in the sense that some will be in heaven and some in hell, or else in the sense that, even if all are in heaven, earthly kin-relationships will no longer be relevant. It strikes me as incredibly odd that the fact that Mormonism came to add something lacking in traditional Christian doctrine should be taken as an unholy assault on family relationships. How weirdly ironic.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Lucretia:

I understand your frustration when you hear such things. I would never say such a thing to you nor do I know anyone who would, still, your reaction comes from somewhere and I empathize.

Nobody has ever said such a thing to me in such words. The implication is always there, but most people toot away about the plan of salvation, etc. without ever realizing what they really are saying. I did watch the last pair of missionaries who left my house carefully, and they didn't dust their feet on my threshold, to their credit. (that's a little joke) I appreciate your response, Hoops.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Actually, most Christians I know believe they WILL be with and know their families in the afterlife;

This is a fairly new development, relying more, I suspect, on contemporary American sentimentality about the family than on biblical exegesis or traditional theological interpretations. It is not the historical teaching of mainstream Christianity over the past two thousand years.

that everyone will be together, blissfully, in one big heaven, no class separations.

Except, I suppose, those who are in hell -- a huge class separation. Unless, of course, you're talking about some fairly new and quite liberal forms of Christianity that downplay the notion of hell.

This discussion is beginning to remind me of a conversation that I've had -- once with a Muslim married to a Mormon friend, and once with a Catholic married to a Mormon friend -- in which the heavily Mormon-influenced non-Mormon would say, effectively, "Well, my religion believes in _____________ (eternal progression, eternal marriage, an anthropomorphic divine Father, salvation for the unevangelized dead, or some other doctrine that the individual admired), too." And then I would be in the awkward position of responding that, while I wished that were true, it simply isn't.

[_Hoops]

Lucretia:

I understand your frustration when you hear such things. I would never say such a thing to you nor do I know anyone who would, still, your reaction comes from somewhere and I empathize.

Nobody has ever said such a thing to me in such words. The implication is always there, but most people toot away about the plan of salvation, etc. without ever realizing what they really are saying. I did watch the last pair of missionaries who left my house carefully, and they didn't dust their feet on my threshold, to their credit. (that's a little joke) I appreciate your response, Hoops.

Hey, with a screen name like that, you're someone I would love to understand.

Still, you're right. That is the implication. While it can be disheartening, it can also be wonderfully freeing - though I'm sure you've heard that before.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I didn't know the term, "Plan of Salvation" but I was well aware as a child that I would most certainly NOT be with my family. It was extremely distressing for me.

Well, as I say, reactions are curious. I never knew any such thing.

While the "chosen" people will get to be together forever, the rest of humankind will be separated for eternity from loved ones and family... it just doesn't feel very holy to me.

As I say, I find this conversation quite bizarre. Standard Christian doctrine, historically, has been that all of humankind will be separated from loved ones and family forever -- either in the sense that some will be in heaven and some in hell, or else in the sense that, even if all are in heaven, earthly kin-relationships will no longer be relevant. It strikes me as incredibly odd that the fact that Mormonism came to add something lacking in traditional Christian doctrine should be taken as an unholy assault on family relationships. How weirdly ironic.

What you should be doing when Truth Dancer tells you something is this: study it out in your own heart and ask God whether your own conceptions of heaven and earth are true. When you are sufficiently pure in heart and sincere in desire, you will get your answer.