The Fall of the Iron Curtain

[_beastie]

We were the highest baptizing Mission in Europe North until the end of my Mission when Edinburgh passed us up.

I guess that's why they were nicer to you.

[_karl61]

Venezuela really is the only country to kick out Mormons and other missionaries as far as I know.

Technically they weren't kicked out of Venezuela--the church pulled out the North Americans. Had they left them there, it was only a matter of time before Chavez expelled them.

As a result of pulling out the North Americans, the "work" in Venezuela has nosedived. From the Caracas Venezuela Mission website:

Presidente Nicolaysen (1996-1999) has asked me to relay the following messages to all alumni of the Venezueala Caracas Mission.

BAD NEWS: According to Pedro Larreal, CES director for the Caracas Mission area, the number of missionaries in each Venezuelan mission averages 50 to 70, and the leadership may be considering recombining some missions.

HOW YOU CAN HELP: There are no longer any domestic suit manufacturers in Venezuela. Virtually all new suits are imported. Store prices are too high for most to afford. Many of us have used suits and ties lying around that could be spruced up and used by young men in the Caracas mission. You might remember particpating in a similar program at Christmas time in 1996.

There are four missions currently in Venezuela, so that makes a whopping 280--at most--native Venezuelans serving missions. LDS.org says there are 138,000 Mormons in Venezuela.

you think the Church would send Chavez a good biography of how BY lived and he would say, hey that's my kind of guy - State control of business/property etc.

[_Inconceivable]

I was a missionary in France from 79-81. We were one of the, if not THE, lowest baptizing mission in Europe. We were constantly berated for our lack of success, and told that our lack of faith and maybe even lack of obedience was the problem. The field was white already to harvest, we were told. We had no excuse. It was brutal and depressing.

My mission president (81-83) would stand at the M&D each month and say that he knew from the crown of his head to the souls of his feet that if we would be more obedient, each companionship would baptise 2 converts each month. The average month for the mission was 50 converts to 180 missionaries. Half of the companionships I was in were valiant and faithful - it wasn't humanly possible to become anymore perfectly obedient. He blamed our lack of success on disobedience and unfaithfulness - even though he was also testify each month that we were the most faithful, abedient and valiant ones in the premortal life.

Depressed and oppressed was the norm. We were always bagged on. A baptism was forgotten the following month. It was more like "it was about time", rather than, "well done good and faithful servants".

If, as companionship, we had a brotherly love and a genuine and respectful friendship, we were happy. People recognized the harmony and wanted what we had. I thought what we had was the true gospel. I was wrong.

[_Inconceivable]

The Lord is obviously trying our faith. I have asked the question myself. He works in mysterious ways Runtu, and we must understand that. In the next life we'll look back and smile, then knowing His purposes. For now, we must have more faith and sacrafice more freely. His blessing shall flow in his own due time.

Amen.

Trying our faith? I just don't think your soul is that important to anyone (including to God) to damn others at the expense of you learning greater faithfulness. Makes you feel like your soul has greater value than all the great unwashed, doesn't it? Gives you an "apostle complex"?

As for the need to understand that God works mysteriously:

3 For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:3)

Why don't you have more faith and start sacrificing more freely? What is your problem? Lengthen your Stride you slack dog. You're best just isn't good enough. It's time you ran faster than you are able.

I'll bet you would sound less rediculous if you read your scriptures and posted without the bottle of Thunderbird in your free hand.

No doubt, you will make a fine mission president someday.

(flame off)

[_Runtu]

I was a missionary in France from 79-81. We were one of the, if not THE, lowest baptizing mission in Europe. We were constantly berated for our lack of success, and told that our lack of faith and maybe even lack of obedience was the problem. The field was white already to harvest, we were told. We had no excuse. It was brutal and depressing.

I was in Bolivia, one of the highest baptizing missions in the church, and we were also constantly berated for our lack of success. And yes, we were told the exact same reasons. I well remember F. Burton Howard coming to our mission after we had had several months of rather high baptism rates. He spoke for about 45 minutes in Spanish, railing on us for our lack of commitment and faith. Think of all the people waiting to be baptized if we would only get our acts together. His voice was raised in anger, not rejoicing.

To suggest that this was merely "rejoicing over people joining the church" is ridiculous.

[_beastie]

Our regional rep (at least I think that was what he was called) was so brutal that he made the assistant to the presidents cry at a conference. He made them stand up and report how many baptisms they'd had the past month. Of course, like almost every other companionship in our mission, the answer was zero. He then told them that if they didn't KNOW HOW TO DO IT they had no business being in a leadership position and should step down.

What distressed me the most about the talk he gave in my district was that he went on and on about how great the sister missionaries were, and how the elders should be embarrassed and humiliated by how the sisters were so much better than they were. This was distressing to me because I knew we weren't having any more success, or any more faithful, than the elders were. His remarks almost smacked of sexism - that even the SISTERS were better than the lousy elders - and it wasn't even true. He was just trying to say whatever he could to hurt the elders.

Robert Hale was his name. I will never forget him. He's a general authority now.

They also made us all buy and read the book Drawing on the Powers of Heaven - (what a deal that author made). The book clearly stated that there were simple rules of behavior and attitude to follow, and if you followed them, you'd have success. So I devoured that book, tried my best, and still had no success. More guilt. No matter how hard I tried, I just wasn't doing it right. What was wrong with me?????

It was a truly horrible experience, one of the worst of my life.

[_The Nehor]

We were the highest baptizing Mission in Europe North until the end of my Mission when Edinburgh passed us up.

I guess that's why they were nicer to you.

I doubt it, a friend served in France, average was 1 baptism per missionary a year. I asked, he said they weren't raked over the coals. They just did what they could.

[_Scottie]

These stories make me glad I didn't serve a mission.

But I did go to Bolivia, Runtu. Wow, that was an eye-opener!!

[_Bond...James Bond]

I doubt it, a friend served in France, average was 1 baptism per missionary a year. I asked, he said they weren't raked over the coals. They just did what they could.

Doesn't your friend's experience vs beastie's story testify to the hit or miss nature of the Church. In places where the leaders are good, the missionaries get along well. If the leaders are assholes in a certain area, they get raked over the coals.

I hate the inconsistency of organized religion.

[_The Nehor]

I doubt it, a friend served in France, average was 1 baptism per missionary a year. I asked, he said they weren't raked over the coals. They just did what they could.

Doesn't your friend vs beastie's story testify to the hit or miss nature of the church. In places where the leaders are good, the missionaries get along well. If the leaders are assholes in a certain area, they get raked over the coals.

I hate the inconsistency of organized religion.

People are people. We all survive our fair share of good people and assholes in life.