KimberlyAnn wrote:Surprisingly, I do agree with Crockett on this issue, though I understand others must do what they can to keep their families intact.
It is easy for rcrocket to be self-righteous when he isn't in guy sajer's shoes. So easy to be a tough guy until you are in the same situation.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Surprisingly, I do agree with Crockett on this issue, though I understand others must do what they can to keep their families intact.
It is easy for rcrocket to be self-righteous when he isn't in guy sajer's shoes. So easy to be a tough guy until you are in the same situation.
Everyone has to go about things in their own way and do what works for them. I did what I felt I had to do, and I afford others the same privilege, though I do believe being straight forward about things is optimal.
I do not know Guy personally, but from what I've read on the board and from our limited communication, I cannot imagine him being a hypocrite when it comes to his activity or inactivity in the church. His wife knows he does not believe. His children know. And if his conscience is clear, that's all that matters.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Everyone has to go about things in their own way and do what works for them. I did what I felt I had to do, and I afford others the same privilege, though I do believe being straight forward about things is optimal.
I do not know Guy personally, but from what I've read on the board and from our limited communication, I cannot imagine him being a hypocrite when it comes to his activity or inactivity in the church. His wife knows he does not believe. His children know. And if his conscience is clear, that's all that matters.
I very much agree with you, and I am not surprised. You are a good sort.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Surprisingly, I do agree with Crockett on this issue, though I understand others must do what they can to keep their families intact.
It is easy for rcrocket to be self-righteous when he isn't in guy sajer's shoes. So easy to be a tough guy until you are in the same situation.
Oh I see. It is OK to live one's life one way to one's friends, and another way on-line publicly. I could be mistaken, and hopefully I am not overstating things, but that kind of person will burn in hell.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Surprisingly, I do agree with Crockett on this issue, though I understand others must do what they can to keep their families intact.
It is easy for rcrocket to be self-righteous when he isn't in guy sajer's shoes. So easy to be a tough guy until you are in the same situation.
Oh I see. It is OK to live one's life one way to one's friends, and another way on-line publicly. I could be mistaken, and hopefully I am not overstating things, but that kind of person will burn in hell.
You don't see very well then, because that's not what I think. I believe people should be honest, and personally, I could never attend the Mormon church in good conscience, but that's what suits me and not necessarily everyone else.
What makes you think Guy or any other apostate on this board is dishonest with their spouse? As long as they are functioning well as a family and are open and honest with each other, who are you to condemn them to hell? Actually, your assigning folks to hell gives me a chuckle. I always imagine Joseph Smith frying in hell.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Surprisingly, I do agree with Crockett on this issue, though I understand others must do what they can to keep their families intact.
It is easy for rcrocket to be self-righteous when he isn't in guy sajer's shoes. So easy to be a tough guy until you are in the same situation.
Oh I see. It is OK to live one's life one way to one's friends, and another way on-line publicly. I could be mistaken, and hopefully I am not overstating things, but that kind of person will burn in hell.
Maybe, but why would it upset god for someone to try to find a middle ground with their spouse? Compromising with others seems admirable to me. If there really is some god up there I think the people who pretend to speak for him will be the first to burn in hell. Everyone from a Prophet who tells a young woman that god wants her to marry him, down to the Bishop who tells a young woman that god wants her to be the nursery teacher. Pretending to speak for god probably really pisses him off. Those are the people that will be in the front of the line in hell. Of course, I don't believe in hell.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
guy sajer wrote: Uhh, because the New Testament is a work of historical fiction?
Come to that, so is any claim that God speaks to Mormon prophets.
Why not call a spade a spade? Important Mormon leaders were racists who confused their own narrowminded biggotry for God's will.
Hmm. Let's see. You are still a member of the Church, you haven't resigned, you admit Church visitors to your home, and you on occasion attend. [Not to mention the fact that for years you took a paycheck from BYU.] Am I right? Please disabuse me if I am not.
I'll tell you, if I thought the Rosicrucian Society was a bunch of hooey, you wouldn't see me lending my person to its credibility.
I could be mistaken, but I think the word is "bigotry."
rcrocket
I am still a member; I would have resigned long ago but remain on the roles out of consideration for my wife's feeelings. I haven't attend a Mormon Church service for over 3 years now. I do go for my son's cub scouts pack meetings, but that's the only time I cross the threshold at Mormon chapels.
Consider yourself disabused :-)
I wouldn't use the word "bigotry." Calling racist old men racist is a statement of fact, at least according to any reasonable definition of the term "racist."
I can guarantee you, that were my wife to tell me that she was leaving the Mormon Church, and I could wrest my children safely out of Joseph Smith's clutching claws, and put Mormonism behind me forever, that very same day I would cease any activity on this an any other Mormon related discussion board.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
KimberlyAnn wrote:I do not know Guy personally, but from what I've read on the board and from our limited communication, I cannot imagine him being a hypocrite when it comes to his activity or inactivity in the church. His wife knows he does not believe. His children know. And if his conscience is clear, that's all that matters.
KA
This is a statment of fact. My wife and children understand 100% where I stand and what I believe. I perhaps made the mistake of coming out to my wife almost immediately after deciding that the Mormon Church was bogus. I was too direct and perhaps things would have gone more smoothly initially if I had soft pedaled it a bit.
My extended family, and my wife's extended family, also know that I am a non-believer, though few of the details (no one asks, and I keep my views largely to myself out of respect to them).
The only place I give vent to my true feelings in a relatively unrestrained manner is here on this BB, which is the only BB I participate on any more.
I am not pretending to be anything I am not.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
rcrocket wrote:I could be mistaken, and hopefully I am not overstating things, but that kind of person will burn in hell.
I assume that this is hyperbole, at least I hope it is. This is otherwise a very uncharitable and highly dogmatic/judgmental view for a Bishop to hold, particularly when you have as much power/influence as you do over peoples' emotional well-being.
The potential for a narrow minded, dogmatic, judgmental Bishop to really f*** with someone's mind and emotional well-being is quite large. I suspect that in real life, however, you are much more reasonable and rational than you are on internet discussion boards, as is the case, I think, for most of us here, even Mercury ;-).
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
guy sajer wrote: I perhaps made the mistake of coming out to my wife almost immediately after deciding that the Mormon Church was bogus. I was too direct and perhaps things would have gone more smoothly initially if I had soft pedaled it a bit.
I came out immediately to my husband, in just the way I described in my post, and he eventually left the church, so I wouldn't blame your approach, Guy. It doesn't do any good to second guess, anyway.
Most of my extended family are Mormon as are my closest neighbors. I don't bring up Mormonism with them, though they never give up on trying to re-convert me.
At any rate, I knew you weren't a hypocrite. I wonder if Robert will admit he was wrong?