I wore a burka today.

[_The Nehor]

There's no accounting for taste.

Lots of things are sexy. I like to think I'm broad-minded on this point.

[_The Nehor]

There are many men and women who think it's most attractive and desirable when women accept "their place."

I find it sexy when a woman is submissive to me. I also find it sexy when they take a dominant role towards. I also find it sexy when they take an equal role towards me. Does this make me a monster?

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

There are many men and women who think it's most attractive and desirable when women accept "their place."

I find it sexy when a woman is submissive to me. I also find it sexy when they take a dominant role towards. I also find it sexy when they take an equal role towards me. Does this make me a monster?

There's a very real difference between a woman choosing submission to a man because that is what she enjoys and because it makes them as a couple feel closer to one another by sharing such trust, and all women of an entire religion being expected and trained and conditioned to remain in a position of subordination and lower class by virtue of her gender alone.

It is morally wrong to place such restrictions on an entire gender based on gender alone, just as it's morally wrong to conclude that men are the only ones capable of handling leadership or authority in the home and at church based on their gender alone.

[_christopher]

I think if I see one more post of yours with that avatar, Sister Mary Lisa, then I will be converting to Catholicism.

Chris <><

[_harmony]

I find it sexy when a woman is submissive to me. I also find it sexy when they take a dominant role towards. I also find it sexy when they take an equal role towards me. Does this make me a monster?

No, that makes you unmarried. The church requires that married men be dominant. There is no equality in a Mormon marriage (unless the wife forces the issue, of course).

[_The Nehor]

I find it sexy when a woman is submissive to me. I also find it sexy when they take a dominant role towards. I also find it sexy when they take an equal role towards me. Does this make me a monster?

No, that makes you unmarried. The church requires that married men be dominant. There is no equality in a Mormon marriage (unless the wife forces the issue, of course).

I need to call my father and my uncles and my married friends. They've all been doing it wrong.

[_harmony]

I need to call my father and my uncles and my married friends. They've all been doing it wrong.

Why? Because their women (your mother, aunts, and female friends) refuse to wear the veil at home, even though they're required to wear it in the temple? Sounds to me like it's your mother/aunts/female friends who have been doing it right, rather than your father/uncles/male friends who have been doing it wrong.

[_antishock8]

Sister Lisa,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think I was feelig a little exasperated with Hally, or more directly, with her mindset. I think you helped clarify what it was, exactly, that she was feeling and trying to communicate. I have two daughters, and I'm doing the single dad thing. This isn't an attempt at a pat on the back, because I don't really care about that, but my point is that raising daughters to be on equal ground in their minds with men is a challenge when adult women all around them seem to be constantly settling and constantly subordinating themselves to men and half their own gender. They have a Mormon mother in Utah doing the Mormon mother thing, which is already a crappy example, in my opinion, for what I want to accomplish. They have the Mormon culture thing that you talk about (Richard Packham just posted a touching obit to his sister who took her life, a result of years of feeling worthless within Mormondom). They have the Southern thing. The gender thing. Then they have the global Patriarchy thing. Etc...

And this is coming from a dude who, by far, does not consider himself, at all, to be a "Social Progressive" (Go McCain/Palin!). I value the concept of equality, liberty, freedom, and the architecture that our system created that allows all people, if they so choose, to flourish and prosper. So with that... Perhaps you can sense my disappoint at the sentiments expressed by Hally (now understood better).

V/R
AS8

[_harmony]

Sister Lisa,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think I was feelig a little exasperated with Hally, or more directly, with her mindset. I think you helped clarify what it was, exactly, that she was feeling and trying to communicate. I have two daughters, and I'm doing the single dad thing. This isn't an attempt at a pat on the back, because I don't really care about that, but my point is that raising daughters to be on equal ground in their minds with men is a challenge when adult women all around them seem to be constantly settling and constantly subordinating themselves to men and half their own gender. They have a Mormon mother in Utah doing the Mormon mother thing, which is already a s****y example, in my opinion, for what I want to accomplish. They have the Mormon culture thing that you talk about (Richard Packham just posted a touching obit to his sister who took her life, a result of years of feeling worthless within Mormondom). They have the Southern thing. The gender thing. Then they have the global Patriarchy thing. Etc...

I take it you aren't in Utah and you aren't raising your girls in the LDS church. Because if you are, you are fighting an uphill battle.

[_The Nehor]

I need to call my father and my uncles and my married friends. They've all been doing it wrong.

Why? Because their women (your mother, aunts, and female friends) refuse to wear the veil at home, even though they're required to wear it in the temple? Sounds to me like it's your mother/aunts/female friends who have been doing it right, rather than your father/uncles/male friends who have been doing it wrong.

Yes, except there doesn't appear to be any colossal struggle. Would it not be fair to suggest that both parties are doing it right? Oh, I should add that these people are active LDS and many of them hold leadership positions. Why have they not been rebuked for their scandalous behavior in letting their wives run rampant? Why, just last week my mother took out the boat WITHOUT HER HUSBAND AND WITHOUT PERMISSION and took some of the women in the ward water-skiing. Why, all she did was call him and tell him she was going. His statement of, "Have fun." doubtless held back concealed rage at her brazen audacity. I can only assume that he beat her when she got back. Otherwise he should be thrown out of his calling and mocked mercilessly.

You want to hear something even crazier? Last girl I was dating insisted that she wanted to plan out of our dates WITHOUT APPROVAL. She didn't even ask. She just told me. It goes without saying that out of concern for her soul I put her in a straitjacket and dumped her on the Bishop's lawn after the date with a large note attached to her saying, "Exorcise the demons from me lest I act so wantonly before my betters again."