Mormons don't really believe in revelation by the Spirit.

[_asbestosman]

These same people who don't know how to discern the spirit are using their discernment of the spirit to "know" the church is true.

Everyone starts off as an amateur. In time they'll either learn, apostatize, or or unnecessarily suffer.

[_beastie]

Everyone starts off as an amateur. In time they'll either learn, apostatize, or or unnecessarily suffer.

By that logic, prophets and apostles should be really, really, good at recognizing "real" revelation. Yet they have quite frequently taught false ideas that later apologists label nothing more than their "opinion". Well, everyone has opinions, but the problem is that these prophets and apostles taught these false ideas over the pulpit, in the name of Jesus Christ, while functioning in their roles as prophets, seers, and revelators. I assume that they took the time to pray and "study it out" beforehand, don't you?

[_asbestosman]

I assume that they took the time to pray and "study it out" beforehand, don't you?

No. I assume that their mistakes caused them some unnecessary suffering. On second thought, perhaps suffering from their mistakes was actually necessary to help them learn. Doesn't mean they were perfect afterwards.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Asbestosman,

But you miss you point (smile)... which is:

Believers, even prophets and apostles and those who supposedly have special keys cannot determine what is or is not inspiration or revelation.

Assuming they, at the very least pray for guidance when they address the world or members as a prophet in an official capacity, obviously are (at times) misled or misunderstand or don't get the right message from the HG.

This is the problem apologists will not even acknowledge let alone address.

~td~

[_Pokatator]

Sethbag, the idea that Mormons are generally skeptical of other Mormons' revelation claims is somewhat unremarkable. When I was at BYU, revelation was often claimed as the reason a dashing young maiden should marry some man. Funny, but the women didn't seem to believe in these revelations.

Mormons don't have to believe every relevation claim from fellow Mormons to believe that personal revelation exists and is real. My MIL claimed that God told her to have her breasts enlarged (no lie), which she did. Must I believe that God inspired her to enlarge her bosom in order to believe that I and others can receive personal revelation is real? I don't think so.

Why, if this revelation business is real and she has enough "faith" to have revelation, doesn't the process bypass the middle man (the doctor) and God just enlarge her breasts on his own?

PS It seems like the Mormon god would enjoy doing that.

[_Thama]

I have yet to hear of even one "revelation" that cannot be explained through other means... people have all sorts of other-wordly, unusual, mysterious experiences. The questions is... how does one determine which experiences/revelations are from God? (Assuming God is actually answering some people and not others).

However, I find it difficult to believe that if God exists God would tell people all sorts of varying "truths"; "truths" that completely contradict each other.

Or that God is somehow tricking the human population by giving all sorts of contradictory information. Ya know?

~td~

I've heard of quite a few. The human memory, even when there is no unconscious attempt to deceive, is prone to embellish, "remember" events that actually never occurred, and associate unrelated events in search of meaning or order. Should all of the revelations of the early church actually have occurred as described, then there would be little doubt that they were not merely deceptions (conscious or unconscious). By the same token, simply because someone is incorrect or deceived in their revelations doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is similarly incorrect or deceived.

However, as we are unqualified to fully analyze or judge the mental experience of another, we are left to our own experiences as the lone sample set on which we can make a valid decision. The idea that one needs to receive revelation for oneself in order to validate other revelation is a logical one, though the methodology proposed by Mormonism is designed to produce a skewed result (and is actually quite similar to the methods employed by Scientology in their early indoctrination).

[_gramps]

Sethbag, the idea that Mormons are generally skeptical of other Mormons' revelation claims is somewhat unremarkable. When I was at BYU, revelation was often claimed as the reason a dashing young maiden should marry some man. Funny, but the women didn't seem to believe in these revelations.

Mormons don't have to believe every relevation claim from fellow Mormons to believe that personal revelation exists and is real. My MIL claimed that God told her to have her breasts enlarged (no lie), which she did. Must I believe that God inspired her to enlarge her bosom in order to believe that I and others can receive personal revelation is real? I don't think so.

Why, if this revelation business is real and she has enough "faith" to have revelation, doesn't the process bypass the middle man (the doctor) and God just enlarge her breasts on his own?

PS It seems like the Mormon god would enjoy doing that.

That is what the angel and the flaming sword are good for!

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Dude. If she needed a "revelation" in order to get her husband to pay for the procedure, more power to her. ;)

[_Scottie]

Nobody's more deserving of ridicule than someone who's arrogant and wrong at the same time.

Thanks for the new sig line!!

[_asbestosman]

Assuming they, at the very least pray for guidance when they address the world or members as a prophet in an official capacity, obviously are (at times) misled or misunderstand or don't get the right message from the HG.

This is the problem apologists will not even acknowledge let alone address.

It's not necessarily a problem. God will not command in all things. Sometimes He will let the prophets try their best without telling them everything. It's like that D&C scripture about being commanded in all things leads to slothful servants. I don't want slothful prophets.