Everybody Wang Chung wrote: I think this is the first post where he has mentioned MsJack, and not been a total misogynist.
I had to smile when I read the phrase "well known anti-Mormons" following those three names.
God knows the entire world is aware of Dr. Scratch and MsJack's nefarious plots to undermine Mormons everywhere. And I'm pretty sure MsJack's husband lives in constant fear over how much she hates all things Mormon and will stop at nothing to destroy the church.
I love when a jackass is so proud of his assery that he signs his name to it.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered with/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
Interesting to note that one can so quickly determine which comments are from the tbm brigade bearing testimony. They jump right in with words and phrases only used in the church. A person un familiar with "Mormonisms" must read these posts and wonder........ What strange use of language.
Then Will jumps in with names 99.9999999% of those reading will not recognize. It is light box all over again.
When the defenders start up on a national stage they come across as simply weird.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this.
Good thing we're not pretending.
If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.
Sure. To the degree that we can. As with any religion, faith is also required.
Tobin wrote:This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this.
Good thing we're not pretending.
I think Mormons are pretending now. Mormonism may have a basis in fact (i.e. God, or more likely hyper-advanced beings visited Joseph Smith). But few Mormons have experienced these beings since. And I seriously doubt any of the current leadership has been visited by these beings. So the leadership implying they have such contact is a pretense for imposing what they believe is true. What they need to admit is the truth that they are not in contact with God and are teaching only what they think is true.
bcspace wrote:
Tobin wrote:If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.
Sure. To the degree that we can. As with any religion, faith is also required.
Faith should be confidence in something that you know is true or legitimate. Have you experienced these beings bcspace? If not, I would seriously recommend you seek these types of experiences and know for yourself what Joseph Smith and others may have experienced. Then maybe we can speak about faith and what we should have faith in.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
even bcspace is too lazy to use his name in quote, Tobin wrote:This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this.
Good thing we're not pretending.
Good thing you're not pretending, you really have that monopoly.
With my limited understanding, this is the meaning of Your sentence.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Tobin wrote:This is a serious problem the LDS Church has though. You can't pretend to have a monopoly on the truth and pretend to be directed by God, and not open yourself up to this. If you are going to make these types of claims, when push comes to shove, you have to take a deep look at whether you are really kidding yourself. And if you are going to continue to maintain these types of claims, then you had better be able to back them up (i.e. you had better be talking to God for real) or abandon them altogether.
This was a delightfully refreshing post from Mr. Tobin.
said Mr. Givens, who hosted a similar discussion in July in Provo, Utah, and has others planned in the United States. The church is not sponsoring the sessions, Mr. Givens said, but local bishops give their permission.
I thought these events were approved by church leadership, but now it appears I was mistaken. Really the church has done nothing for the average doubter. FAIR has tried, Givens is trying, but the prophets, and the apostles do nothing. Allegedly there will be essays to engage these issues at some point in the future. I'll believe them when I see them. So glad to see them finally paying the piper for whitewashing history.
Bring on the essays. Let's have a conversation about Joseph marrying his hired help. Let's have everyone hear the story of the proposal to Lucy Walker. Sure some will continue to believe, but I'm betting conversions will take a beating. At least those who stay in will do so knowing the whole story. The members have always deserved at least that much.
Church Leaders want to see how they go, if they are successful they will claim ownership, if not it was just Givens and under the bus he goes.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Will Schryver Cedar City, UT Dr. Scratch, Grant Palmer, Bridget Jeffries and other well-known anti-Mormons have done a great job of spreading misinformation about the LDS Faith. For every question about the LDS Church, there is a valid answer. You just have to know where to look.
lulz.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13
Will Schryver Cedar City, UT Dr. Scratch, Grant Palmer, Bridget Jeffries and other well-known anti-Mormons have done a great job of spreading misinformation about the LDS Faith. For every question about the LDS Church, there is a valid answer. You just have to know where to look.
lulz.
I'm assuming Will doesn't expand on where, exactly, those places to look actually are...
(Jack, he's SO not over you)
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)