Some thoughts...

[_Themis]

I don't think this is under debate. This forum largely exists as an island of misfit toys for their own anti-Mormon self-gratification.

That's the RFM board. If you say anything positive about the church you can get into trouble. Here you get to say whatever you like as long as it is on topic. No restriction on who can post here as evidenced by your ability to continue posting.

[_mentalgymnast]

And in an echo chamber such as this, the voice of reason/balance/questioning will be drowned out through heckling/innuendo/name calling...

And that's the way it is.

I don't think this is under debate. This forum largely exists as an island of misfit toys for their own anti-Mormon self-gratification. It is not a scholarly forum, it is not a reasonable forum, it is not a nice forum. This is the type of forum where a gay Mormon suicide is celebrated because it makes Mormonism look bad (no one really cares about the kid). It is a place for Philo to extol the virtues of science, while having a less than high school level of scientific education, all the while being patted on the head and told what a great atheist he has become. It is about reinforcing negative bigotry.

And this is all it ever will be. Oddly enough, many members would find (and have stated outright) that their activities here would seriously impair their real lives, should they come to light, but they do not see the problem.

So, you have a point, but it is sort of a hollow truth. It has never been anything other than a place for people to complain, so why expect anything more? I read here occasionally, when Church irritates me, just to remind me how much I do NOT want to be like these people. It puts things in perspective.

Interesting comments. Food for thought.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I know this is true in the name of Joseph smith, amen.

Mockery.

This does say something about you and the way you see/treat those that place Joseph Smith in high regard. This may apply to others here also.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Some additional thoughts.

So, Shades, this action of having moved multiple posts downstairs or into oblivion may have a chilling effect on active LDS posters coming to participate here. If we come to this board and express ideas that 'cut against the grain' and/or go against the agenda that a majority of board members may have...and then they are hamstrung through negative innuendo/accusations...by a collective mind...there will be few members that will participate. But maybe that's what you want? I participated on multiple threads pointing out a couple of things that I see as being pertinent to the posting style of grindael. He didn't like it. He complained to you. You took the threads away.

And what was one of the first things you did afterwards?

You say this to grindael:

Thank you for your time and research, grindael! You are truly a treasure to this board.

You did so on his #7 thread which I had committed to not make any comment on or question what he did/said in any way. Which promise I have kept.

Why were the other threads moved? I as a matter of fact said that I wouldn't step in and rain on his parade after he had whined and complained six threads in a row. (Ok, Lemmie, time to step in and show/prove that I had already said this in one way or another...derail.) The fact is, at that point I was done with him on this topic. I had made my point and responded to the hecklers that kept jumping in to keep things going.

So you have this guy who you see as "a treasure" who whines to you that he is being mistreated and you acquiesce to his complaints.

Brilliant.

But chilling.

Board freedom. That's in question at this point...at least in my mind.

What you did is eerily similar to what critics say the church had done and continues to do. If they want something to disappear, they simply ignore it and/or 'cut it out' with hopes that it will then all go away.

This board is, in theory, a place where folks can have a conversation/discussion. Not so much anymore. When your integrity and intellectual honesty are continually being attacked...and that is the major focus of discussion to the exclusion of being able to discuss feelings/ideas, etc...the board's purported purpose will implode on itself and this place will simply be an echo chamber for dissaffected Mormons and enemies of the church.

Is that what you want?

Regards,
MG

[_Xenophon]

Well.... I honestly never did see you engage anything Grindael posted on Jo's spiritual wifery..... there is that.

I think this was the crux of the problem for me as well. I may be partly to blame, as I was the first person to address MG's original comment on the Spiritual Wifeism thread. I personally would have rather seen him use the quotes he changed the highlighting on to refute Grindael and ask questions. Like: "If the two girls called as witnesses had nothing bad to say about Joseph, do we still use the fact that they were called against him to malign his character?". Instead we were left with the passive-aggressiveness that we got and we had a conversation about when capitalization or bolding is appropriate. The argument then spiraled completely out of control on both sides.

As a pretty long time lurker I can say that both parties can often egg each other on for no other reason but to see the feces fly.

[_Lemmie]

Well.... I honestly never did see you engage anything Grindael posted on Jo's spiritual wifery..... there is that.

I think this was the crux of the problem for me as well. I may be partly to blame, as I was the first person to address MG's original comment on the Spiritual Wifeism thread. I personally would have rather seen him use the quotes he changed the highlighting on to refute Grindael and ask questions. Like: "If the two girls called as witnesses had nothing bad to say about Joseph, do we still use the fact that they were called against him to malign his character?".

I would have expected that too, and I asked mg, somewhere in about thread 4 or 5, about the significance of his changed emphases, but got no answer.

This is all over a thread (well 8 threads as mentalgymnast chased grindael from thread to thread to thread, posting exactly the same, already addressed irrelevancies) where grindael announced some pretty great news about having his research published in a peer-reviewed journal this coming spring, I feel bad that grindael couldn't even have his moment.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey MG!

I doubt anyone will step forward, however, and acknowledge that this may indeed be true.

Ceeboo gladly steps forward.

I haven't spent a lot of time on the MDB lately (I think this is my first post in a few weeks) and the reason/reasons that I haven't, in very large part, is due to some of the things you have posted in this thread.

Truth be told, I really miss the many interesting discussions and topics that used to litter this place on a daily basis. For the most part, these types of discussions seem to be quite rare of late - and in my opinion that's very unfortunate.

Perhaps they will return? Perhaps they will not?

(A belated Happy Thanksgiving to all)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_mentalgymnast]

I personally would have rather seen him use the quotes he changed the highlighting on to refute Grindael and ask questions. Like: "If the two girls called as witnesses had nothing bad to say about Joseph, do we still use the fact that they were called against him to malign his character?".

That's actually a good question. I wish you would have jumped in and asked it at the time. Alas, it may be too late at this point. I think that could make for an interesting discussion.

Another thread?

Regards
MG

[_Quasimodo]

Hey MG!

I doubt anyone will step forward, however, and acknowledge that this may indeed be true.

Ceeboo gladly steps forward.

I haven't spent a lot of time on the MDB lately (I think this is my first post in a few weeks) and the reason/reasons that I haven't, in very large part, is due to some of the things you have posted in this thread.

Truth be told, I really miss the many interesting discussions and topics that used to litter this place on a daily basis. For the most part, these types of discussions seem to be quite rare of late - and in my opinion that's very unfortunate.

Perhaps they will return? Perhaps they will not?

(A belated Happy Thanksgiving to all)

Peace,
Ceeboo

Hey, Pal!

I'm sorry you are getting disheartened with MDB. I see it like those old fashioned magazine stands that used to be on city corners (pretty much all gone now like bookstores and video rentals). One doesn't need to buy all the magazines available, just the ones you are interested in.

It's cyclical. Great threads come and go, but they do always appear.

You have a role to play here. You are the one that brings the light, kind comments to otherwise dark discussions. Stay and keep us sane!

[_mentalgymnast]

Truth be told, I really miss the many interesting discussions and topics that used to litter this place on a daily basis. For the most part, these types of discussions seem to be quite rare of late - and in my opinion that's very unfortunate.

Hey Ceeboo, I agree. And I've said as much. Scattered around in my posts among different threads I've statd my reasons as to why I believe this to be the case and/or true. Including this thread.

I miss it also. The problem as I see it, is that when one person becomes the focus...and it's the PERSON that becomes the topic and/or focal point...the discussion goes down the drain. Within the last number of months we have seen at least one poster come online who has made it their duty/calling to be that person. It is very difficult to engage in honest discussion when one doesn't feel as though they can honestly say what they want to...at the moment...without having everything continually twisted and contorted to make things appear as though one has a lack of self awareness...is intellectually dishonest...is passive aggressive...and has ALL sorts of different deficiences such as being a di**wad and a myriad of other designations which finally result in folks joining in the chorus of f*** off.

That doesn't promote good discussion.

Hope things are well with you. You are a voice of balance and harmony. Believe it or not, that's the area/realm that I like to co-exist in. But it has become more difficult to do so. Now where Shades as apparently jumped in and actually deleted threads because a "treasured" board member called, "Troll!", I think we/the board are in danger of losing the:

"Yes, you can say that here!" (see sub logo above).

It might be well to remove that?

Regards,
MG