When treating people with respect is just too difficult for some.

[Jersey Girl]

Trying to get somewhere in my head to relate to the OP as a in real life experience. That said, I will not be held responsible for anything I say in this post from this point on. I mean it.

1. When I speak to LDS in real life about their life or religion, I speak to them using their own language. Example: I refer to God or the Lord where they may refer to Heavenly Father.

2. A former student now goes by a new name. It hasn't been legally changed. When I refer to her in messages with her mother, I call her by the new name our of respect for her preference. If I met up with her in real life (she lives in another country) I would refer to her by her new name. When Mom comes over (she's a friend after all these years) we use her given name in conversation.

3. A (now deceased) Jersey acquaintance's daughter recently got married to her girlfriend. I Facebook remarked that she looked stunning and wished them a lovely life together.

4. If I had a preschooler in class who referred to themselves as a girl (when they were biologically male), I wouldn't argue it out. I would acknowledge that in that moment, days, weeks, months or whatever, the role that the child maintained for as long as the child maintained it. I would wait for child cues as to when/if they changed their role back to their biological identity and never mention the previous identity. That has to do with respect for a child's vulnerablility.

5. When I talk with my kids about mutual friends I refer to same sex couples as they are known publicly...example: Her wife, his husband. That is who they are to each other and what they call their spouse.

6. If I knew someone who had alters, I would ask them who they were and refer to them by their alter's name because that is who they really are when that alter emerges.

7. When I make numbered lists like this, it means I'm thinking my way through something. Just throwing that in.

That's it. That's all I got. I don't think I quite got "there" in my head. Maybe close. Maybe not.

ETA: This is a really stupid topic. Get it away from me.

[Marcus]

Trying to get somewhere in my head to relate to the OP as a in real life experience. That said, I will not be held responsible for anything I say in this post from this point on. I mean it.

1. When I speak to LDS in real life about their life or religion, I speak to them using their own language. Example: I refer to God or the Lord where they may refer to Heavenly Father.

2. A former student now goes by a new name. It hasn't been legally changed. When I refer to her in messages with her mother, I call her by the new name our of respect for her preference. If I met up with her in real life (she lives in another country) I would refer to her by her new name. When Mom comes over (she's a friend after all these years) we use her given name in conversation.

3. A (now deceased) Jersey acquaintance's daughter recently got married to her girlfriend. I Facebook remarked that she looked stunning and wished them a lovely life together.

4. If I had a preschooler in class who referred to themselves as a girl (when they were biologically male), I wouldn't argue it out. I would acknowledge that in that moment, days, weeks, months or whatever, the role that the child maintained for as long as the child maintained it. I would wait for child cues as to when/if they changed their role back to their biological identity and never mention the previous identity. That has to do with respect for a child's vulnerablility.

5. When I talk with my kids about mutual friends I refer to same sex couples as they are known publicly...example: Her wife, his husband. That is who they are to each other and what they call their spouse.

6. If I knew someone who had alters, I would ask them who they were and refer to them by their alter's name because that is who they really are when that alter emerges.

7. When I make numbered lists like this, it means I'm thinking my way through something. Just throwing that in.

That's it. That's all I got. I don't think I quite got "there" in my head. Maybe close. Maybe not.

I think you got there, Jersey Girl. It reads to me as though you have respect for the person, which includes respect for how they refer to themselves. Ultimately, you always show that you care for people as they are, as they see themselves, and in the best possible light. I don't think there is any better way to approach this issue. Thank you.

[canpakes]

I read it as a clumsy way to say “pronouns that don’t correspond to biological sex.”

I understand that much. I just don’t see why ‘pronouns that don’t refer to biological sex at all’ is a problem, considering that such pronouns are already a part of everyday conversation.

[Marcus]

The two parties involved probably are getting along in spite of it, while online posters argue the point.

Really? You think so? You honestly think that hearing from an aunt that her bigotry means she won't use the name you prefer is an issue that will just get swept under the rug and ignored?

[I Have Questions]

This is when you tell your kid their TBM aunt is a bigot.

Text my trans kid got from my TBM sister in law:

https://i.redd.it/7d244b6n0ewd1.jpeg

”Hi Aunty, having you use names for me that I have rejected would cause me stress and upset me. As President Nelson has said, it’s very important to use the correct name when addressing somebody - you’re a Latter-day Saint, not a Mormon. So please call me by my correct name - the pronouns I have designated, or please don’t call me.”

[Jersey Girl]

So I think msnobody mentioned a person/patient named something...Jesus. RI (?) asked about Hispanic persons. Where I live there are tons of Hispanic citizens. So...let's say professionally I encountered a child or parent (FYI: I'm actually retired now but still...) whose written name was Jesus. When I met them I would simply ask how they pronounce their name so I have it right.

Reasoning:

Professionally Speaking:

It's my job to get it right regardless of culture, race, or whatever. Ethically, I'm not about confusing a developing child or disrespecting a parent.

Socially speaking: I want to get the pronunciation correct. And with regard to to let's just say the name Jesus in general as a first or last name--

Religiously speaking: My thoughts go to the origins of the name Jesus. Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua. Those are the variations that I know that resulted in the name of the Savior we now call Jesus. I guess my point is that while we believe in one Savior whose name was/is Jesus, there isn't or wasn't just one person in human history named Jesus. So...somebody fix me if I'm wrong I'm trying to think with brain fog...his name was Yeshua...which translates as Joshua, and my understanding (fix me here someone) is that it was a common name in that Hebrew culture so...I wouldn't take offense or feel skeeved out if I met a child or parent named Jesus.

Isn't the name of Jesus actually Roman translation? Am I imagining that?

This is Jersey's brain.
This is Jersey's brain in a fog.

[Jersey Girl]

Name

A typical Jew in Jesus's time had only one name, sometimes followed by the phrase "son of [father's name]", or the individual's hometown.[28] Thus, in the New Testament, Jesus is commonly referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth".[l] Jesus's neighbours in Nazareth referred to him as "the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon", "the carpenter's son", or "Joseph's son"; in the Gospel of John, the disciple Philip refers to him as "Jesus son of Joseph from Nazareth".

The English name Jesus, from Greek Iēsous, is a rendering of Joshua (Hebrew Yehoshua, later Yeshua), and was not uncommon in Judea at the time of the birth of Jesus. Popular etymology linked the names Yehoshua and Yeshua to the verb meaning "save" and the noun "salvation".[29] The Gospel of Matthew tells of an angel that appeared to Joseph instructing him "to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins".[30]

Wiki.

Greek? English from Greek? I know nothing. Where is Kish?

So his name at the time would have been Yeshoshua/Yeshua bar Joseph. I think I'm right about that much. Table whatever the name Joseph was.

[I Have Questions]

Res - or Ceeboo, since you believe that the opening post’s text author has a point about this - please explain something to me, given that my IQ on any given day is no greater than the day of the month ...



How does using non-biological pronouns cause any conflict or stress?

There is, as example, no way to speak English without using non-biological pronouns to address two or more people, regardless of sex or gender. The most religiously devoted Americans do this without concern, let alone ‘stress’. What, then, is the religious reason why NBPs could not be extended to single individuals regardless of sex or gender?

I read it as a clumsy way to say “pronouns that don’t correspond to biological sex.”

So the Aunt would be caused emotional stress by calling John Wayne by his real name Marion? Does she struggle with Marion G. Romney and Marion D. Hanks?

“Marion is a unisex given name of French or Latin origin. It can be a diminutive of Marie, a form of Margaret, or a variant of Marius.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_(given_name)
Clearly ‘Marion’ is a non biological pronoun.

The Aunt is simply clutching at ways to self justify her bigoted rudeness towards other family members, especially other family members’ kids! How dare she! If an in law did that with my kid they would be on the receiving end of some very clear feedback about boundaries and be unceremoniously bounced from having access to my kids, or to me. Toxic people like her have no place in your life, eject them.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sounds like this person has a deeply held conviction, which may deserve some respect as well. Just sayin’.

A couple of years ago, a patient legally changed her name to ___ Jesus. I never had to call her by name after the name change, but had thought I would not call her by her new full two-word name as I felt I’d be using Jesus’ name in vain. My thoughts were to just use the new first name without the Jesus part. Perhaps that would be a compromise that would be respectful for the both of us.

Why couldn’t it have been changed out of reverence instead of vanity? For example, many Christians have named their daughters Mary, as a nod to the Mother of Christ. That’s not vain. Same with John, or Adam, or Mahershalalhashbaz.

- Doc

[msnobody]

The two parties involved probably are getting along in spite of it, while online posters argue the point.

Really? You think so? You honestly think that hearing from an aunt that her bigotry means she won't use the name you prefer is an issue that will just get swept under the rug and ignored?

I do think it is possible.